First subdivision

I enjoy reading other newbies‘ experiences, so thought I would add my own

Where: Retain & build in the City of Swan

Zoning: weird one - R50 but only a duplex is allowed

preliminary approval came with quite a few conditions

Costs so far

Surveyor & WAPC fees (part 1) $4k
WaterCorp $8k
Western Power $500 application fee
Tree lopper $500
Dividing fence $4k
Geotechnical $3.3k
Drainage & civil $3.3k

 

The geotechnical report has me scratching my head.

For context, one of the conditions of my preliminary approval was to construct a driveway to the very back of the block (a bond will not do). Conveniently, such a driveway is already in place, as are beautiful shady trees on the fenceline.

The geotechnical report has come back with a classification of „P“ and recommendation to rake to 0.5m depth. That´s fine by me for the building envelope. But please please please dont expect me rip up the driveway & trees?

Waiting for a call back.

 

Western Power has been a funny one.

They want 0.5m clearance from the driveway (easy) or else an underground pit installed or bollards. What makes this weird is the block is at the foot of a hill. While not exactly flood prone, all it takes is for a drain to clog up and any underground pit will flood, guaranteed.

My surveyor thought I should go for the underground option, but there is space and the idea just does not sit right with me.

 

So I'm nervously scratching my head here.

This block is a little unusual (?) in that I don't want to raze everything to the ground. There are five established trees on the site and I want them to stay (3 on the fence line so nicely out of the way, 1 between what will be the pool and the back of the garage, 1 in front of retained house).

I went in to see council and they want trees also - require one tree per lot and a 2x2 tree planting zone) but there don't seem to be too many developments with existing trees, so it is all a bit new in practice.

Structerre have come back saying the site is 'P' soil and needs to be raked and redone 50cm high to become 'A'.

Obviously that doesn't work where there is an established tree.

The course I am taking is to clear (and rake to 50cm deep etc) the building envelope only. There is also an existing driveway / concrete access leg and I see no reason to rip that up, rake and redo it.

But I'm worried soneone at some stage will find issues with that.

Also I don't have a builder so don't have a building envelope. Given where construction costs are at, I'm not keen to rush in.

Help what do I do?

 

My personal opinion is that I wouldn't worry about your geotech issues now. I only say that because they are not part of your subdivision conditions - well I've never seen that as a condition before. I'm assuming your report says that 500mm of A grade fill is what is required to

I only have part of the context though so my opinion is limited to what is above. It is reasonable and encouraged to keep trees and the trees do not care what the geotech type of soil is.

Essentially the geotech is only important for where your house slab is but does need to stretch a bit further and batter out so that the compaction area is appropriate for construction.

Things to consider
- is there any slope on the land so you would be needing to do any retaining or import sand to get to the level you want it - this can be an easy way to get your 500mm of A grade soil in without creating a 500mm lump on the block where the house to be is
- you can dig down 500mm and put the A grade soil in there - can be more expensive than raising it 500mm
- you can raise the house area 500mm with the A grade soil.
- you can dig down 250mm and raise 250mm
- is there good access to the rear block to do this after subdivision
- consider not building in double brick and going with a framed construction as P class might be ok for that or you could consider a waffle slab and framed construction
- is the block large enough so you won't be building on boundary - this may impact on if you need retaining for your new height and how your approach your solution

BTW the driveway should be fine as far as I have encountered in the past. The only thing to consider is your transition from existing driveway level to the new house level but if you are just keeping the driveway to tick your WAPC condition and will redo it later as part of construction then you can easily manage the level/slope transition

 

Good on you… sounds like a nice small project for the first? Keep us posted on progress

search my posts on building blowout, my 3 villa development in Willagee

Not trying to scare you but make you aware that builders are passing on building costs. I know some investors hit bad, larger builders

I stuck to a smaller builder, its worked out very well. He is not taking on anymore clients. Just make sure you do Lots of research here

 

Thank you so much for your input.

The WAPC put in one clause that reads

"4. The land being filled, stabilised, drained and / or graded as required to ensure that:
a. lots can accommodate their intended development (Local Government)
and then talking about levelling boundaries and drainage, which are fine"

I had to get the geotech done now as basis for drainage design, as the Swan area can be heavy in clay.

But I guess based on your argument that a steel frame construction and a concrete slab would have different requirements, one could argue that the block can "accommodate its intended development" in spite of being "P", without the raking / filling? It is level already, except for the driveway, which is long and slopes.

 

Thank you, I guess so. It has a somewhat tricky mindset aspect (i.e. tempting to mix investor thinking with owner-occupier thinking). It has a funky zoning and aspect and I could see it turn into a three storey boutique apartment at some stage, but the area needs to gentrify a bit for that. North facing, overlooking open green space, close to shops, cafes and a tavern. Too many options!

We did chat on your Willagee thread and yes, I have until Oct 2024 and I don't intend to be any sooner lol. Got the back block for free (the retained front house is worth what I paid for the block, and rent covers the mortgage) so holding costs are close to zero.

 

Brilliant

 

What does your surveyor advise?

Personally I think if it's flatish then you don't need to do your fill now and just clear the block and rake during the clearing of it.

However as I mentioned if the block is small you may need to put some forethought into how the 500mm of A grade fill is going to be done in regards to retaining, how your design is going to work with the trees (ie you can't get too close to them without damaging roots and how you can get the fill in once fences are up etc

Out of curiosity which fence line are the trees on because if this is a rear block you will need a room of the house to have windows looking down the driveway so what you think is out of the way might not be out of the way

 

@Westminster I don't want to get into too much detail but the block adjoins an open space and while it is technically a rear strata, the driveway goes along the green space. the trees are on my property, between the driveway and open green space boundary and sort of blend in with the canopy of the public area.

I might need to do a BAL assessment but it is all very central, so shouldn't be bad.

My plan is to have a front outdoor living overlooking the green space and yes the driveway, which will have visually permeable fencing towards OGS anyway.

Hence I thought an apartment block might be nice, as there is no overlooking issue on the OGS side.

It is a strange zoning, R50 but only duplex so can be 12m high I believe.

I don't think the raking will be too bad, just really didn't want to rake where is not needed. There are enough featureless, blank canvas blocks around

 

I hear you on the trees. I've designed around a number of trees so they could stay.

I'm just making sure that you're aware you'll most likely need to have some part of the house quite close to the open space side so that there is a room which can look down the driveway. Depending on the size and shape of the block you might not be able to have your garden area there

 

Thank you, I made the driveway 6.5m wide for that reason. it *should* all fit, fingers crossed.

The front outdoor won't be huge but it is just lovely there. That leaves space for a pool / yard in the back, sans trees (keeping the pool warm and clean).

The wider than usual driveway also leaves room to parallel park a caravan. Which will block the visual surveillance, but pssst

 

PS I'm glad to hear I'm not the only crazy tree hugger here I'd love to see a pic of the development you mention

 

The retained front house is ready for tenants, or so I thought. An old asbestos side fence was overgrown by a vine and now that that shrubbery has been removed, it is evident the fence needs replacing, pronto.

Alas, the rates at the moment are absurd. The best I could get was 225 a meter (60 for asbestos, 115 for colorbond supply & install, 50 for plinths). But its either that or no tenant.

An update on costs so far

Surveyor & WAPC fees (part 1) $4k
WaterCorp $7.6k (infrastructure contrubtions of 2.6k for water supply + 3.3k for wastewater, new water service connection 1.6k)
Western Power $2.6k ($500 application fee, $2.1k connection - there already was a green dome)
Tree lopper $500
Fencing 8k (new dividing fence $4k, replace 20m side fence $4k). There is some 100m of fence remaining. This will end up being a huge cost blowout once the whole lot is done, but I'm drawing it out for now. Surely sanity has to win in the long term.
Geotechnical $3.3k
Drainage & civil $3.3k

Getting the front up to standard - I’m going to say $18k so far

I got this subdivision opportunity pretty much for free and I’m starting to see why. Unless a rising market bails me out, there won’t be a lot in it.

 

Have you had the block cleared yet? Sometimes the demolition/clearing guys are cheaper at removing fences and generally all hold an asbestos removal license so can do it quite easily.

I have a neighbour that organised some new fence and still waiting for the fencer to turn up. They are in high demand so a temp fence is in place until they arrive. Are you sure the fence really needs to go? Sometimes its better to do at the end because the building process can damage a new fence.

Things to consider.

 

Blue crystals glistening in the morning sun by Elle Ar posted 3rd Jan, 2022 at 9:42 AM

I shouldn’t make light of this, it is quite a serious topic.

Yes, spot on, I did get a cheaper quote for the removal from a demo guy ($40 +gst).

most of the asbestos is in reasonable condition, but the area in question is hopeless. To be honest, I wonder whether someone used the shared driveway on the other side and crashed into the asbestos fence at some stage. Not going to push the point to save $40 a meter though. In theory, my other neighbour should pay half but they are playing the ‘wait for a storm and claim it on insurance game.’ I’ll just get on with things around the front block and call it ‘environmental protection’. I’m sure the ATO will understand

As for the back… I’m confused, process-wise.

There are no boundary markers anywhere.

Surveyor says leave re-pegging until levels are final. But I kind of need:

1. front markers to inform WP / WC work
2. then there will be trenching across the front yard to get water and power to the rear lot.
3. Then levelling of front and creating hard stand / double car port in front yard and new crossover and some repair for driveway to the back
4. Demolition of two sheds and an unapproved granny flat in the backyard.
5. Raking / levelling of the back (does this have to be done before titles are issued. Is there a cost saving in doing it now? Or can I just keep my soil type P and worry about that when ready to build (may well be years). The sheds have concrete footings.
6. Back fencing - as suggested, can I just keep the old asbestos in the back for now? Most is in ok condition. I intend to hold both blocks.

What did I forget?

 

I wonder, what do people do for service trenches?

do you get the earthworks company to dig one trench, then have your own plumber and electrician take things from there?

 

The fence issue has been addressed in typical Perth fashion: by doing it myself.

As @Westminster suggested, a demolition guy removed the asbestos (@40 pm) and I sourced all materials for $58pm (could have been cheaper via gumtree but I was too grumpy by then). The rest is a weekend day’s work.

Thus went from $225 pm to $98pm. The back neighbour did offer to pay half in the end and the tax deduction still stands. So that might get the cost down to negligible.

But this is the sort of thing that makes me feel super resentful and ready to get out of property investment altogether. What is the point of having x balance in your account when my weekends are spent lugging cement. I’m over spending my weekends at Bunnings.

I’ll get over it, I just have to be dramatic first

Anyway, the front house is listed, rents have increased again and, for all accounts and purposes, crisis averted.

 

what does not kill you makes you stronger

Its your first development, things will improve as you learn

We never do anything on our deve sites, always leave it to our builder. But there will always be something

oh thats right our brickie left our job for 1 week to build FIL BBQ His back now

So hard to get brickies atm, trying to suck it up