Finding an old contract could save us $100K. Help!

Hi everyone. My family has an unusual situation. My parents recently sold an investment property they first purchased 'around' October 1985. That's right, pretty much when CGT was introduced in Australia on Sept 20, 1985!! Unless we can somehow now prove the purchase took place BEFORE this crucial date, they are up for over 100K of cold, hard CGT. (It hurts!) Unfortunately we do not have a copy of the original purchase contract and after vigorous searches it turns out that the NAB don't keep records pre-2000 (that's where they had the mortgage) and no Govt Dept has been able to help. The only relevant record we have is the Historic Paper Title Deed that shows that the Titles Office received the sales contract on 13 November 1985, and it was registered on 4 December 1985. So I realise it's a stretch but we are talking about t a LOT of money here so want to be left with no doubts. Does anyone have any other bright suggestions on how to find evidence of the purchase date? Any help would be dearly appreciated. Thank you.

 

Long shot, but try the real estate agent. Surely there is a government agency that has records of this. Seems ridiculous. If they don't, how can they enforce the CGT? Worth fighting, that's for sure.

 

Also worth trying the solicitor/conveyancer that handled the transaction.

 

Where is the property based?

Could a digitised database eg http://www.lpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/205285/Old_System_Purchasers_Index.pdf help?

 

Also, it was my understanding that the ATO started gathering all this data a few years back.

 

Winder if there would be any info on apps like RPData. Not sure how far back their data goes though.

 

Who was the solicitor your parents used? Is there a continuing relationship? Who did the solicitor sell their business?

 

20 September 1985 is the relevant date.


What record shows the OSR received the sales contract?

Did you get a copy of the transfer document?

Find out when the settlement occurred and then work 42 days backwards – this is the length of a standard contract. (but it may not have been standard)

Try

Vendor’s solicitor?
Vendors

 

Wouldn't realestate.com.au or similar have the sale date?

 

Hi.

Did your parents actually buy the property before the introduction of CGT? It was (assumedly) a big thing back then. If your parents snuck in before the big day they would most likely remember.

Your evidence to prove a pre CGT acquisition date is a bunch of statutory declarations by your parents and a couple of their mates. It is not the greatest evidence that it was pre CGT but it is a form of evidence.

 

Its the contract date that is relevant not the settlement date.

 

Better get it right. I have seen people try this and they find later they missed it by a day. At the time the substantiation of pre-CGT assets got massive press and all owners knew it was important to retain this proof to avoid a dispute. This date was the first CGT record required of substantiation.

Onus sits with the owner since ATO can just say "I dont believe you". Date and method paying deposit ? Lender records - They ask for the contract ! Back of deed ?

The November date doesnt quite suggest its pre-CGT but thats just a guess.

 

I recall a client with REALLY old share records in faded ink that also included predecimal through to 2000s incl reconstructions and consolidation etc that spanned pre-CGT and post CGT who left millions. I had a three week experience in the state library on microfish to reconstruct a reasonable CGT record. Saved the estate beneficiaries a million bucks. Cost them a bomb too.

Unfortunately unless bought at auction and you can find it in a major newspaper it would be unlikely to be on public records back in the old days. Auction results have been printed in media usually on Saturdays for a long long time.

 

It sounds like it's probably early October to me but just a guess. They should have moved back in before selling it

 

from 20 Sept to 13 Nov is 54 days.
Usually the OSR would stamp duty contract of sale before settlement happens.

So it would appear unlikely that the contract was signed prior to 20 Sept unless it was a non standard contract.

 

Folks, thank you so much for all your responses above (and a few private messages.) I am panning through them and following up any avenues not yet explored. Looks like the solicitors that were involved are a place to dig (albeit 32 years ago!) Seems strange to me that the bank and govt don't have a contract archived - it's from the 80's... not the 40's! :0 Any additional comments very welcome. thanks heaps

 

I wonder if there's a Queensland equivalent to this?

 

The contracts remain with the purchaser and vendor or their solicitors. lPI gets notice of transfer for title, OSR gets the stamp duty.

...and that would achieve?