Fence post - welded and rusty

Hi everyone, new to this forum and hoping to get some advice from an experienced fencer or builder.

A childcare centre was built next door, and the builder replaced our fences less than a year ago due to the damages caused.

They erected six steel posts (post 6 not shown in picture), with steel posts 2, 5 and 6 being welded posts.

The timber fences are at least 2.1m high due to childcare requirements.

As you can see from the last picture, the timber fences between steel posts 2 and 3 have started to bend inwards (not very obvious in the picture). I spoke to the builder in Jan this year and he agreed to replace the section of the timber fences.

It was only today that I realised that the welded posts may not be strong enough to support the entire weight of the timber fences. My main concern is that the timber fences will eventually fall off, which could be a huge hazard especially with children around.

Can anyone advice if my concerns are valid, and if yes, what could be done about this?

Much appreciate any advice.
zorro3338

 

Square steel is strong and is used to support much heavier weights and forces than the fence. The Posts are strong enough unless the steel is very thin like less than 2mm,, if welded properly the welds should be as strong or stronger than the steel. In a few decades rust might weaken the steel where it is rusty . You could steell brush, grind or sand the rust off and paint where welding has burnt of the zinc coating. It should be stronger than wood. You should be more concerned about depth of post holes and how much concrete was used to support the posts. as that is what is supporting it.. You can keep an eye on the edge of the weld where it is more likely to crack first if it helps you sleep better. The timber may bend because the wood is too green or wrong type,

 

Firstly, don't touch the fence, or you may be blamed for causing any issue.

Second, don't worry too much, childcare is regulated and inspected, I expect this issue will be identified and rectified at their cost to remain compliant (long before it might ever fall over).

Third, what a cheap ass dodgy builder !
Those zinc posts can be purchased at varying lengths, he has cheaped out by joining the offcuts to make extra posts.
That and it must be the cheapest import crap to have surface rust coming thru after only one year.

Forth, talk to your neighbors behind to see if they are also having issues.

As per @Fargo it is likely that they haven't gone deep enough on the holes, and most likely didn't use proper concrete when placing the posts (rapid set is not proper concrete, it contains plaster to accelerate the chemical reaction, so ends up a far lower strength).

 

This!

Sorry, I can't give any advice, but OMG! How dodgy

 

Thank you @Fargo and @Stoffo for your advice, I really appreciate it.

To address some of the points:
1. The childcare centre spans along a stretch of 6 or 7 townhouses and none of them had their steel posts welded. Our house is the last house they worked on, hence why I believe they used offcuts for ours, which is unfortunate.

2. I spoke to council today who gave me the contact of their building surveyor. I googled his profile and it was reported everywhere that his license was suspended in August 2019. I immediately contacted Victoria Building Association who has confirmed that his license has been cancelled.
This has made me somewhat uncomfortable.

3. I agree that the depth of the post holes and type/amount of concrete is more of a concern, though there’s really no way for me to assess it.
Also, the builder is coming this weekend to paint the steel posts which will cover up the weld and rust.

Does anyone know which authority inspect and approve childcare centres? Is it just the building surveyor
I’m not sure if the issue (if there is one) will be properly identified, but I’ve taken pictures just in case.

 

Council usually give certifcates of occupancy and use aftre verifying compliance to permits, plans and code suitable for the building category. In some cases a certifier can issue this. Doubt a childcare centre would be allowed a certifier. Surveyors are qualifed to assess land boundary position. They are not qualified to assess construction.
Surveyors Registration Board of Victoria

The landowner is liable for boundaries being incorrect. They surveyor may have a consequential liability to a land owner egngaged by them (not their neighbour). IF they are insured.

You may find council of help for illegal works. Fencing is of less concern to council. Position may be a civil matter. Fencers almost always use quickset. The structural strength reduction is normally of no concern. Obviously if a structural fence requirement is involved then this may be inadequate (eg for a brick wall foundations). One benefit of steel post fences is both sides can have palings if you want it to look better !! At your cost

 

Australian children’s education & care quality authority (acecqa.gov.au)
Or could also be relevant state departments such as dhhs (or equivalent in your state)

 

The galvanising on those posts is very thin and shouldn't be rusting that quickly nor should there be welded joints in each post. The posts should be strong enough for the job.

The builder should wire brush & reapply cold gal to the posts to prevent rusting.

 

There is cold gal paint, cold gal spray paint and cheap as'ss cold gal spray paint !
And judging by the builders previous work we all know it will be the $6 cheapo spray tin (with 8% gal in silver paint) that won't last 12 months

As for the steel already rusting thru the "gal", it should be pointed out that there are various grades of galvanizing, from hot dip galvanizing, gal plating and spray gal

Price determines everything, and the builder likely bought the cheapest, but his would have come from China, it will have been manufactured to the cheapest standard, and had the thinest layer of gal applied, then sat on an ocean dock - followed by a ship getting splashed - then another ocean dock while clearing customs, all taking several months prior to arriving at your address, no wonder it is already rusting

Long ago I used to do fabrication and would quote two prices, for Aussie steel or imported, even on small jobs costing $4k if there was a $200 saving to be had they would choose the imported cheapo crap
[insert Aussie toilet emoji-HERE-]

 

The bend in the treated pine rail doesn’t mean the fence is bad - that’s just what treated pine does as it dries. It can bend.

How long is the distance between the posts?

Similarly, a bit of surface rust isn’t going to make the fence fall down. It’s just cosmetic.

Welds are commonly used to join metal an so this isn’t necessarily a problem either.

If you are concerned, then you could get a structural engineer in to do an assessment or a building surveyor (note to NSW people - that’s what licensed inspectors are called in Vic) to inspect it.

if it was me, I would:
1. Talk to the VBA for advice.
2. Email the builder with photos of the welds and a response.
3. Email the childcare centre with your concerns and photos if you are stlll concerned.
4. If you are still concerned, get an engineer’s report re. the welds - but ask them by email first if they are qualified to do such a report, for a fence. Perhaps go halves in the cost with the childcare centre.
5. Don’t worry too much. If the posts feel solid then the concrete is likely fine.

 

While joining of smaller lengths to make the posts is not best practise or visually appealing (pretty dodge job) I doubt there would be a structural issue supporting the fence weight, the timber rails will bend naturally as they dry out and surface rust is only cosmetic

Follow the steps provided above - from initial post Sou do like it was all done at the other parties cost when the center was built?