Fall of Afghanistan

Echos of Vietnam with the rushed exodus of the government and Americans.
Tragedy for the locals who were making it a better place

Afghanistan crisis: Taliban enter Kabul as President Ghani flees country - BBC News

 

Lets see what comes of it.
Worst case it goes bad. Best case it stays the same.
20 years have gone by and alot of things have changed.

 

Things may not change much in some rural areas but it's probably going to be a disaster for the more cosmopolitan urban populations who don't care much for the stone age aspirations of these Pashtun extremists. An absolute tragedy for the women and girls, they're probably going back into a lifelong lockdown.

 

I don't pretend I know Taliban and what they will do.
There isn't anything anyone else can do now.
USA don't want to go back in again and try to invade the country.
Being the occupation of a foreign land never bold well for anyone. You will always going to leave eventually.

 

Diplomatically the Taliban have been signalling a moderate progression from the ultra-strict beliefs they had in the 90s but I doubt they've changed at all. I agree with your post.

 

Is going to be extremely difficult for those that have spent most of the life in growing up in the relative peace and freedom of U.S. occupation ... my heart breaks for the women and children

Change will have to come from within and meaningful change in any society usually starts with the women at grass roots, which is why a patriarchal system tries to prevent education of girls ... suspect it will be a long road

 

Going to be called the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

In simple terms, it's all over by the shouting.

 

First the US funded the Taliban to fight the Soviets, then they funded the Pakistanis to fight the Taliban, then they legitimised the Taliban to fight the Afghan govt.
When nothing worked, they left in the dead of night putting the onus of peace on Afghanistan & its neighbours.

Imagine being an Ally of USA.....and seeing the US leave behind its Afghan ally at night like a COWARD.

LOL

 

I feel for the families of those soldiers who lost their loved ones there, they must be wondering if it was worth the sacrifice.
I am also not surprised at the Afghan army melting into the background rather than fight and as for the President running for the hills it says it all ...
However it is obvious that the people [men] of Afghanistan dont think their country worth fighting for and until they do the Taliban will reign.
President Biden made the right decision no matter how hard it must have been ...

 

Difficult to watch for many, particularly those of us in the west but Afganistan is really only seen as a 'country' by us, hence the influence of the Taliban.


Provides a bit of an insight, and perhaps explains why what we are seeing was inevitable.

 

Well Geez you sure put it that bluntly in those words. Truth hurts like a Bip.

 

That's why I pray that our government pulled/pulls out those locals who helped our military - and are now in grave danger. If we leave them behind, there will be no other peace keeping or conflict we can enter where the locals won't then shun or trust us. These people put their lives on the line to help our guys - what pitiful cowards we are if we abandon them to their "fate".

They don't even need to come to the mainland - take them to Christmas Island. If the government can open it up for a defenceless family of 4, then they can damn well open it up for a crisis such as this. It's not hard.

I blame the previous US government - not only did they give a date, which mean the Taliban simply had to sit back, regroup and plot for that date - but they committed the current government to following through. If the current government hadn't kept to the word of the previous, that would've ruined foreign policy trust that the US can commit from one term to another.

I know there is no easy solution, but IF the US, and allies, had stayed until the current crop of girls were educated and grew up to have children of their own - who then sent their children to be educated who grew up - and then we end up with multi-generation of educated, progressive, independent citizens and a societal shift ... not so easy to kotow back underfoot

 

The people of Afghanistan have to fight for what they want and its clear from the actions of their army they will not ... it's been clear to me for years their army has been happy to play soldiers with ours but fight by themselves, I think not ...

 

I think it has a lot to do with self preservation - and that of your family - when faced with an overwhelming, cruel and malevolent force.

The Taliban don't just kill you - they will track down your extended family and wipe them out too. I suspect I'd put my head down and stay quiet too

The major problem was that the US went in on a particular mission then got bogged down in "nation building". Their military is not good at nation building. The local army was also trained to fight as part of the US military - but once the US left, the local army suddenly had no technological support, no experienced leaders, no battle hardness

 

The problem is there often is no people of Afghanistan rather there are people from different tribes and backgrounds that happen to inhabit the same landmass. Some of the Afghan army would not have felt any loyalty to the state but whatever tribe/ethnic group they are from- if you're a Baloch stationed near Kabul then your mind is probably preoccupied with your families survival in whatever town they inhabit in the south and earning that paycheck.

As Lizzie pointed out, most in the army were not battle hardened and even for those that felt a sense of duty it would be extremely hard to stay and fight an overwhelmingly determined enemy.

I'm a lot more cynical on Afghanistan, without staying there forever the US would never have been able to affect enduring positive change. The country remains mired in poverty and illiteracy, but in addition to those two things, there's a backward Deobandi inspired culture among the Pashtuns which is so ingrained it's probably impossible to change.

 

Yes, agreed, they have a different mindset to us which we find hard to understand ...

 

I can only hope Morrison offers asylum to Afghans currently in Australia ... like Fraser did to the Vietnamese and Howard to the Chinese (after Tiananmen Square)

 

Well that was an exercise in futility! 20 years worth.

 

It was bound to happen. The rats come out when the cats leave. You can't fully democratise countries like this, like most 3rd world ones in the ME. They operate best, funnily enough under an authoritarian regime / dictator - Libya and Iraq come to mind.

US, Australia etc was right to extricate themselves, gradually or abruptly - how long were they going to stay for and at what point would they leave? They got Osama (in Pakistan) and that point, they should've bugged out progressively.

You can pretty much count on Afghanistan turning into a sanctuary for Islamic fundamentalists where Jihadists are most welcome. The unfortunate byproduct now is the potential rise of Islamic state and wannabes. We enjoyed a hiatus from that for the last 2 years or so...it's potentially a very large looming problem again.

The Western world should be opening their doors to those who risked their lives to assist them during their tenure. They'd be wearing a target on their backs as we speak.