"**** you" money

Kinda interesting when I started working there and at one lunchtime I was saying I like my work... People found that an interesting comment like I had 2 heads! But I'd gone in with my home and a couple of Sydney IPs, and I'm there knowing I'm on a fixed term contract and with the suggestion that I've got enough money to retire in a couple of years.... It's all sweet! I don't openly express or say this to every single individual I work with though. But I got to know there a few other people with substantial properties portfolios there too.

And... Geez, what can I say.... I love FU Money.

 

It can be very short if you can time the markets and jump into as many as you can afford...... or it can be very long, much longer than 15+ years to retire if you continue buying in flat or falling markets with absolutely zip knowledge on how markets work.

Lets look at some boom cycles in Australia, for those who jumped in all these cycles you should be worth some serious $ now and relatively short time frame. Rinse and repeat, easiest way to make money is to follow the rising trend.

Boom Cycles
Perth 2001-2007
Perth 2013-2014
Melb 2008
Melb 2013 still going
Sydney 2013 still going

I will also just add USA booming market in 2011- and still going nuts.... I AM IN, I AM A SUCKER FOR MAKING EASY MONEY. Developing property is nice too, mix it up like a Margarita

 

I hope you mean CG, no CGT. One is capital gains. The other is capital gains tax.

Yeah, I agree you can make the money sooner IF everything pans out perfectly. ie IF you get sufficient growth to sell, pay CGT and still clear enough money to pay down your PPOR mortgage....

But as anyone outside Sydney and some parts of Melbourne who have seen nothing like 400-500K growth in the last 3 years will tell you, IF isnt the same as WHEN. In fact, anyone with INV properties outside of those 2 cities would likely tell you that they dont have a snowballs chance of paying off their PPOR using the growth of the past 5,6 or 7 years . They would be sorely disappointed if they pursued the strategy you are advocating, and expected it to clear their PPOR debt in 3 years.

The other flaw in this approach is that even if you do strike capital growth gold, you still have to sell the INV property in order to actually realise the after CGT profit , in order to pay off the PPOR.

This means that even if all the ducks line up and you strike that gold, you may well be mortgage free faster, but it also means you have also sold your income producing property.

The way I do it, I can have both things. I can pay down the PPOR quickly, but retain all my income sources, which will mature over time to a level where they provide a passive income for life.

Each to their own of course, but as I see it, one strategy is investing /dividend reinvesting. The other strategy is speculating, and hoping to pick winner after winner after winner. Was pretty easy to pick winners when the credit era was expanding. Really, it was like shooting fish in a barrel to be honest. 25 years of that is a tough culture to change. So I understand why its hard to see past it. But lets just see whether its as easy to strike gold as easily, or whether the hit rates are as high , over the coming years, as APRA and ASIC slowly but most surely continue to ever so slowly tighten the noose to choke off speculative credit.

 

@euro73 , that was a typo and as you said to each their own but why is me waiting on my property to grow in value is speculation while you waiting on your cash cows or nras properties to grow is not speculation?!
Another thing is that uncertainty you mention applies to all property. No guarantee your regional or Nras will have tenants or no issues.
Also, speculation to my mind is not a bad thing since mine involves months of research before even deciding on a suburb.Again, I was in property for the long run but seeing how the market is acting, crazy growth, is one of the reasons driving me to think of selling and realising profit. If as you said your CG for cash cows is not that high, it means I can come back in a few years and buy some at almost the same price as now while being mortgage free.
Too many ways to skin a cat...

 

Not an ounce of speculation involved. Pure dividend reinvestment. I can pay off my PPOR without any growth - if that were to occur. And I can retain the income.

All other risks being equal, I can offer accommodation 20% cheaper than the competition can. Not a guarantee of being tenanted - but certainly damn close to it

I didnt say that. You guys keep mis-reading me. I have said many times over many posts that I assume no growth - that's not the same as saying I expect no growth , or welcome no growth, or have achieved no growth. In fact, I have done almost all NRAS projects in Sydney, so the reality is my clients have made massive capital gains in addition to their 5 star cash flow. But they havent sold anything. They don't need to.

In simple terms, I ( and my clients) have the freedom to make pure investment decisions based on return, rather than speculative investment decisions based on potential growth. The bottom line is that in a worst case scenario, I have a strategy that will pay off a PPOR and retain income, even without growth - if that is what were to happen - which is not the same as saying I expect it to happen. You have a strategy reliant entirely on growth - and big growth at that - to pay of a PPOR - and no B plan whatsoever if you dont strike gold . Yes it can be very successful most definitely, I grant you that - but it requires a lot of luck and there is no B plan if it doesnt work out .


Anyway - this is a thread about FU Money. Ive outlined how I got there and how dozens of my clients are getting there. So while I wouldnt consider myself an ultra high net worth individual (yet) I am none the less a guy who has a substantial portfolio, generating over 350K of NET /after tax/tax free income , and I'm PPOR debt free. So perhaps ...just perhaps.... with those runs on the board , maybe, just maybe... what Im doing works...

But if others are finding FU success other ways...giddiup and god bless em !

 

I suppose having a F-y- attitude is also a matter of what your bosses are like.

About 30 years ago a senior manager told me "I like you Brian, I never have to wonder what you are thinking about . . . . because you tell me!"

 

From experience, for me it has been very empowering. So much so that I walked away from a very well paying job. Not simply because I could but rather because I got tired of the band-aid solution to everything, making client promises knowing full well that the cheapest option would be implemented 9 out of 10 times regardless.... it just gets to you after a while. It eats at your conscience & compromises your professional morality.

Having "**** you" money allows choices of conscience rather than tolerance based upon financial survival. I now earn far less than I did or still could, but I'm happier than I've been for a long time. Financial Independence does not mean you are flush with $$$, have a net worth of X or can do anything anytime, but it does mean you have enough to support a reasonable lifestyle regardless of if you choose to work or not........ notice I said 'choose' rather than 'need' to work?

To answer your 2nd question, yes I choose to work P/T because I am conditioned to enjoy doing something professionally productive & it funds non-essential purchases such as regular travel, fancy toys/hobbies, home improvements etc.....

Enjoy the journey,

Indi

 

The real FU money is your health, brain and happiness. Without that you can't easily create more cash if need to by way of reinvention or going back to work etc. If you have plenty of FU money but not all 3 of above life may not be crash hot compared to those working for a less perfect job but in good health and mental state.

Plenty of miserable rich guys and who wants to be that?

I'll take my money values and middle class lifestyle anyday. Rather than being bitter and twisted like many people I know with too much FU money, they don't even realise how much they have sometimes and are still angry and searching for the most trivial and meaningless things.

 

It is not a "FU attitude"
It is a "FU position" - where you have the position to be able to say it if it comes to that.
They are entirely different things.

 

What a great position to be in. Too many people choose the boring life of being a wage slave, having a cute little family and not taking any risks in there life, just plottering along and getting there the slow way. You will never make it to f u position if u do this.

 

Love this.... health... tick!
Brain.... tick!
Happiness... tick!


My additional comment...
There's often a fear of being jobless, that fear is if you become jobless is that you will not be able to find other well renumerated work. People living paycheck to paycheck will be the ones who now be facing their fears by this stage.
But what makes having FU money a strong position to be in is that you shouldn't have a fear of being jobless.

Indeed, if you do find yourself jobless, you can actually grow and do something even better than before since you do not have to take the first opportunity presented to you out there, you can take your time, say no to the wrong opportunities and say yes only if you really want the role. Or you can start your own enterprise, you have time to not need to hit the ground running. Money is power.

Btw. Thanks for the reminder on what's important

Yes agree completely. It's the "FU position"... a position of power.

Ditto "Volunteers NOT Prisoners". Cheers @euro73

Coming from this position you can just take on work you want to do. If your job doesn't align with you heart and your morals and integrity, or something else just doesn't sit right for you in the role, the "FU position" means you don't have to do it. I just love that.

 

this is getting too visual....not sure when moderator are going to step in

 

Let's all adopt an FU position right now!

 

In my company it's project based work. You don't have one boss forever. We run IT transformation programs and teams keep changing and moving from client to client. So I think that's one reason some of these act with such attitude. Another I feel is stress. We all work super hard and long hours could be hard to adjust to initially. Another reason could be that they have graduated from some great unis and carry a sense of entitlement. In any case, it got addressed appropriately. The managers had just the right amount of maturity and insight to not take any of it personally and set them up for some attitude change.

 

Haha, all in a day's work! You can't just have an attitude without giving something back! And you can't just be expected to be piled on with work and not push for something or the other every now and then. I'd say no one can last without giving something where they are taking something too. So it evens out.

 

I think the best way is to keep quiet and watch the world goes by. Spend your time thinking and researching your next IP. Why challenge your boss if you can shut up and do something more productive. Save your job and earn money at the same time!

 

Interesting... I want the world to be a better place that's why I'd speak up. Lets assume if you do nothing and take no action then there's a reasonable probability the company will going to go under. But you as an individual can call it out. Do you want the company to go under? It's the difference of being a proactive player vs. being just a passive ride taker. I'd rather take action into my own hands, acting with integrity and with the best interests of the company than leave all the control to someone else (and by the sounds of it, it's getting f'cked up). At least I know I've done all I can within my power.

Its a 360° alternative way of seeing things.

Having the conversation may uncover other things within the company that you may not know about already. It's best to make it all known and clear. Best to work with in an open and transparent environment.

#Itsjustaproblem...
#problemsolvingequalssuccess...