Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community

Extremely rude tenants... What would you do?

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by JMica, 23rd Jun, 2015.

  1. JMica

    JMica Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    58
    Location:
    Sydney
    Rented out IP at the begging of the year, and the tenants we got are extremely rude. When there are issues they jump down the property manager's throat and the tone of their e-mails is demanding and terribly rude.

    E.g. There was recently a shower issue where there was no hot water, which was an easy fix, my dad went & fixed it. A couple of days ago the issue came up again, my dad went literally within hours and fixed it.

    They are now demanding that a professional plumber goes there but there is no issue, even though it's fixed they have sen a rude and demanding e-mail.

    Another example is that they wanted the igniter in the oven fixed and they were complaining that it was a safety issue. The oven worked fine and they threatened to fix the igniter and send us the bill. I bit the bullet and replaced the oven with a new one and paid over $1k

    I'm at my wits ends I feel like they raise issues and whinge regularly and are quite rude in the way they raise things, the agent and I the land lord are not dogs and I feel like they have an air of entitlement with the way they raise things...

    Their contract is due to end early August and I'm not sure if I should just end the contract, I know I'll end up loosing 3 weeks in rent in vacancy and fees...

    What would you do?
     
  2. Pistonbroke

    Pistonbroke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    395
    Location:
    Guangzhou
    Let the agent manage the maintenance rather than diy.
     
    bob shovel and Terry_w like this.
  3. Jamie Moore

    Jamie Moore MORTGAGE BROKER - AUSTRALIA WIDE Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,148
    Location:
    Canberra and Sydney
    Good point from pistonbroke. Is it the DIY maintenance the issue that's annoying them? I can't see why it would be an issue if the work is being done correctly.

    What would I do? Providing it's not an issue with the DIY work. I wouldn't renew their lease. Instruct the PM to start advertising for new tenants a month out before their tenancy expires.

    It sounds like you've been fair and reasonable - they sound like extremely difficult. No doubt they'll take their attitude to their next rental.

    Why will you lose 3 weeks rent in vacancy? Is their enough demand in the area to ensure a new tenant can move in quickly?

    Cheers

    Jamie
     
  4. WattleIdo

    WattleIdo renovating Premium Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,815
    Location:
    Central West NSW
    Do they pay on time?
     
  5. wombat777

    wombat777 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,436
    Location:
    33°41'24.7"S 150°55'34.3"E
    Agree. The best advice!

    When I was a tenant, I had an owner that would often do the repairs himself even though he had a Property Manager. Often ended up wasting hours of my time just to fix a leaking tap. A plumber would do these repairs in a matter of minutes and do them properly.
     
  6. JMica

    JMica Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    58
    Location:
    Sydney
    Yes mixed feelings here, because I have tried to be reasonable. We only do DIY maintenance for minor issues, but it seems like they blow everything out of proportion. I've never had tenants that act like this on such a regular basis.

    They pay on time so that's not an issue, but it's the rudeness that's getting me irritated.
     
  7. JMica

    JMica Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    58
    Location:
    Sydney
    @Jamie Moore I estimate 3 weeks cause it usually takes 1-2 weeks to find a tenant and the first week rent goes to the agent.
     
  8. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    5,379
    Location:
    Somewhere in the land of Oz
    ask your pm what the market is like and start putting out feelers if anyone else is intetested. if they want them gone too they'll find someone!
    if the market is busy you could have someone quick. earlier this year tenants out mon, new tenants fri

    get the pm to work for it
     
    JMica likes this.
  9. JMica

    JMica Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    58
    Location:
    Sydney
    @Jamie Moore do you think if I don't renew their contract and start advertising a month before, that perhaps they won't cooperate, e.g. With any open house inspections and letting the agent take photos, i.e. so make it really hard for me to get new tenants?

    If they are rude now, I can imagine they aren't going to be accommodating if they find out that they have to move out against their wishes...
     
  10. JMica

    JMica Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    58
    Location:
    Sydney
    Great tip, I think I'll get a feel from the pm about the market.. Thanks @bob shovel
     
  11. wombat777

    wombat777 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,436
    Location:
    33°41'24.7"S 150°55'34.3"E
    They may also feel that you are being a sticky-beak. That's how I partly felt whenever the owner turned up to do a repair - I always preferred it when a professional was sent to do a repair.
     
  12. htopg

    htopg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    202
    Location:
    Sydney
    I have met uncooperative tenants that refuse open inspection.
    PS. I was not the landlord but a potential buyer for that property.
    The tenant made up excuses not to let agent to open home or take photos.
    Hope your tenant is different.
     
  13. JMica

    JMica Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    58
    Location:
    Sydney
    I wouldn't imagine they would be cooperative @htopg
     
  14. Kael

    Kael Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    277
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW
    I've heard people say to others before "as long as they pay on time, it's fine, don't worry about it". To me, that's only part of what I look for in a tenant. If a tenant is causing damage to the property, or if they are causing unnecessary or excessive repairs, then I'll re-consider them as tenants. In saying that, I don't do any DIY maintenance. As investors, we pay Property Managers to work for us. I'm of the opinion that they should look after all the maintenance requests and that they should have the issues fixed. If it's over a certain amount, I want them to check with me first, but they normally know what's best.
     
    D.T. likes this.
  15. htopg

    htopg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    202
    Location:
    Sydney
    One of my past tenants
    1. late on rents over 80% of the time
    2. caused damage to internal doors and walls (in the events of domestic violence)
    3. caused noise to neighbours
    4. cause police to come many times because his kids' friends are wanted by police

    At the end, I said that I would do renovation and needed them to move out.
    Now, every new tenants look good ;)
     
    JMica and Gockie like this.
  16. MRO

    MRO Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    163
    Location:
    Perth
    Dont renew their lease, and give them notice of this immediately.

    May cost you in a few weeks lost rent but i wont tolerate rude people.
     
  17. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,940
    Location:
    Brisbane
    We do what fixes we can. The hot water fix may not need a plumber at all and could be something simple. Why pay a plumber $100+ when it might simply be flicking a switch or lifting a release valve. Anything that does require a plumber or electrician should certainly be done by the trade required.

    The piezo ignition could have been something they can force you to fix, but you've replaced the cooker, so that is sorted.

    We've had picky tenants (not many) and one couple who called regularly with a wish list of things they would like done, thank you very much!

    Thankfully we self-manage or goodness knows if a PM would have done some of the things they were asking (probably not). We didn't move them on because they paid on time. Finally they bought their own place. I'm wondering who they are complaining to now?

    My advice is that you put up with the complaints and keep taking the rent or bite the bullet and move them on. I do believe they will likely make it difficult to advertise and show the house whilst they are there, so you risk losing more than three weeks' rent.

    I wonder if your agent is game to suggest the tone of the emails is aggressive and she may have to report it to her boss. They may not give a toss, but perhaps they are not aware of the aggression coming across.

    Also, check out what the rental market is like now. We've just dropped over $100 a week to get a tenant due to a very soft rental market right now in our area. (We were likely getting higher than market, but it still was a shock to see rents dropping and empty houses week after week.)

    You don't want to give them the flick and find you don't get the same rent again. Why not raise the rent and they will either pay up for their rudeness or move out - their choice? Can you afford an empty house for several weeks?
     
  18. skater

    skater Capitalist Premium Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,412
    Location:
    Sydney
    Just like the posters below, I wouldn't renew their lease, regardless of the costs. Loosing 3 weeks rent could very well be the lessor of the financial damage these people will do to you. Your poor PM doesn't get paid enough to have to deal with this, and no matter how good at her job she is, the stress of dealing with this just isn't fair on her (or you). You replaced a perfectly good oven just to shut them up. How often will you do something like that, or resort to calling a professional for something that you would prefer to fix yourself, just because you don't want to deal with them. Just bite the bullet & move them along.

    Quite possibly, but do it anyway. You will be a LOT happier without them, and so will your PM.

    OR......as Wylie suggested put up their rent to compensate for their rudeness. They may move on their own, or.....stay & pay up. But make it a decent amount, not something small like $5pw. We've done that with tenants that we couldn't move along due to tribunal orders, so everytime they screwed around with us, their rent went up by $20pw. By the time they left, they were paying over $60pw above market.
     
    JMica and bob shovel like this.
  19. Be Developer

    Be Developer Property Developer Business Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,078
    Location:
    Australia
    @JMica

    If rental market is storng...time to get a new tenant... Serve them required notice n move on with next one.

    Nothing you will do that will make then happy.(licensed trads people, quick turn around on repairs,etc)


    Also, don't forget you are landLORD!!!!!
     
  20. Perp

    Perp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    455
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Having just been a tenant for a few years during our "flood exile", I am convinced that whilst PMs are good at many things, maintaining cordial relationships between landlord and tenant is not one of them.

    I'm convinced that PMs sound sterner than they need be, in both directions, to try and keep both parties in line. So instead of the tenant's request - "could you please fix X?" - the PM translates it to the landlord (and remember that they're probably used to dealing with stingy landlords who want to say not to repairs) - and say to the landlord: "you have to fix X or they could take you to Tribunal...", and that becomes - in the landlord's mind - "the tenant's saying I have to fix it or they're threatening me with Tribunal!"

    This happened every time we had a communication landlord-tenant in our rental, even though about 3 or 4 different staff members at two agencies were involved. Fortunately I'd met the landlord and we had each other's mobile numbers, and we had a good enough relationship that we just rang each other, both thinking "that doesn't sound like Perp"/"that doesn't sound like Perp's landlord". Sure enough, there was never a problem of unreasonableness between us, despite the PM delivering a quite aggressive message. If I'd not met the landlord, I'd've thought - based on the PM's messages - that he was a right prick!