Cars & Motorbikes Electric cars

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by Chris Au, 10th Apr, 2019.

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  1. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Only hope the government take the initiative and support the making the damn things in Australia, rather than simply export the raw ore material.

    If only they'd supported the electric/small car industry 5 years ago instead of pouring money into a dying Commodore that no one wanted
     
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  2. euro73

    euro73 Well-Known Member Business Member

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    I believe the WA Govt has already started supporting setting up small battery manufacturing plants in Kwinana, in the south of Perth.And they are putting money into some other research centres as well...

    WA has the 2nd largest deposits of lithium and cobalt behind Chile I believe- two key ingredients for batteries.... and it also has large deposits of copper - required for the several hundred meters of electrical circuitry and wiring that goes into these EV's. You would have to imagine that as car manufacturers ramp up demand for batteries and copper, it wont be a modest 10 or 20% increase. Think about what will happen when every manufacturer is delivering EV's into every market on earth . Think about the demand for batteries and copper wiring. It seems logical that demand for these minerals will skyrocket.... might be a few years away yet, but it bodes very well for the WA economy and therefore Perth. They are surely going to get a huge slice of that business as the 2nd largest producer in the world.... and its not like WA lacks the mining expertise to take advantage of the opportunity. if they can figure out how to get some of the downstream processing jobs into WA as well, it could be huge . With resi property prices in Perth basically in the dumpster, seems like a pretty good long term play to start looking at Perth properties.

    Battery research centre puts Australia at 'cutting edge' of global lithium industry

    WA cashes in on lithium as work begins on world's largest lithium refinery

    https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...et-to-continue-into-2019-20190103-p50pf5.html

    https://thewest.com.au/business/min...ithium-game-changer-in-kwinana-ng-b881076970z

    Kwinana dubbed heart of 'Lithium Valley', set to play significant role in WA economy | Community News Group

    https://www.smh.com.au/business/the...ets-lithium-valley-right-20180716-p4zrsk.html
     
    Last edited: 10th Apr, 2019
  3. Chris Au

    Chris Au Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. I was reading an article from Kia and their stalling point is the number of mechanics in Australia with EV training/experience (ie that there would only be a few centres in the major metro areas with experience maintaining/repairing EVs), that recharge points need to service multiple manufacturer (rather than each manufacturer having it's own recharge connections making it impossible to pull up to a 'generic' recharge point), and the distances in Australia (even though 80% of the population live on the coast).

    I'm all for keeping the lithium in Australia rather than exporting. I'm wondering about the manufacturing set-up costs and ongoing costs. Now where is Sanjeev Gupta (Whyalla - Whyalla population to boom as Sanjeev Gupta embarks on upgrades), someone like him will get it going.
     
  4. sqe

    sqe Well-Known Member

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  5. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Agree - or if China decides to close the shipping lanes alongside their artificial islands in the South China Sea. We're buggered
     
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  6. Chris Au

    Chris Au Well-Known Member

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    Well if the recent China shutdown of the plastics recycling is anything to go by, I hope we all get used to riding pushbikes....:rolleyes:
     
  7. balwoges

    balwoges Well-Known Member

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    How is the government going to replace the Petrol Excise levy when the country reaches 50% electric cars? - its going to hurt the bottom line ... :eek:
     
    Last edited: 11th Apr, 2019
  8. Chris Au

    Chris Au Well-Known Member

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    mmmm....that might be on p47 of the 35pg policy...:rolleyes:. It's a bit like solar. Those that want it, have it or are progressing down that track, all others keep going as they are. The energy stations haven't fallen over, still the demand.

    I'm not sure it will happen as fast as they predict, but I do hope it gains momentum.
     
  9. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

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    They'll probably just tax electric cars.
     
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  10. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    ... or on km's driven per year ... or a levy on the yearly rego regardless of how much you drive it

    They'll find a way
     
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  11. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

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    No doubt.
     
  12. wombat777

    wombat777 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure of the original source of the graphics. No sure also if figures are US-centric.

    2.jpeg
    1.jpeg


    Via twitter ... Cory Groshek on Twitter
     
  13. euro73

    euro73 Well-Known Member Business Member

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    It doesnt matter - in the end this is happening no matter what Bill, Scott , Michaelia or anyone else has to say about it

    Unless a whole new breed of car manufacturers pop up, the current mob have made it clear that EV vehicles are where all their R&D $$$ are going now. That's just how it's going to be. Thats all that you will be able to buy - like it or lump it.It's just how it's going to be.

    I own an AMG C63S coupe that produces copious amounts of horsepower and torque and wakes neighbours when the start button is pressed... its a 4 litre twin turbo petrol engine that produces an engine note that makes me smile whenever I drive it.... but I wont be able to buy this kind of vehicle in 10 years , in all probability. It's just how its going to be. Instead, I'll probably have to drive an EV that goes just as fast or faster, and do without the sensory overload produced from the exhausts spluttering and crackling. It's just how it's going to be.

    We will all look back in 10 -15 years and wonder what all the fuss was about regarding the transition to EV's. They will just be the norm.
     
    Last edited: 11th Apr, 2019
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  14. Speede

    Speede Well-Known Member

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    Tesla will probably be bankrupt...before EV really takes over.
     
  15. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Build an app to supply the "surround sound" of different burbling cars ... it'll be a hit
     
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  16. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    To much competition now - and Tesla is too expensive. Toyota had said they will be converting their Lexus within 3 years, so that will become the luxury version
     
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  17. Phantom

    Phantom Well-Known Member

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    This has already begun - for most it's gone under the radar, but for mining stock investors (and mining companies), the signs are there already and have been for a little while.
     
  18. Chris Au

    Chris Au Well-Known Member

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    Looking at current demographics across the world, need to upskill mechanics, and relative costs of pure EVs to ICE vehicles (and that manufacturers aren't playing nicely and need to have their own plugs into recharge stations etc - building their own empires), I'm thinking at 2030, up to 5% of cars will be pure EV, 15% will be hybrid and 80-85% will be the traditional fuel vehicles, especially if you include agricultural machinery.

    RE: Lithium mining and impact on WA employment etc. I'm wondering if the mechanisation of manufacturing and mining has already begun it's impact on how many production jobs are needed?? We need to build the manufacturing plants to enable (easier, quicker) battery replacements. The life of the battery and technology is something I will be watching closely.
     
  19. wombat777

    wombat777 Well-Known Member

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    Technology for recycling of Lithium batteries used in cars is still evolving.

    I understand that batteries will have a life in cars until they get to about 80% of their original storage capacity. I understand good for several hundred thousand KMs (perhaps more). At this point the cells can be repurposed and used for stationary storgae (home storage) applications. Another second life they can have is as cells in industrial machinery. Audi have been experimenting with this:

    Audi installs used lithium-ion batteries in factory vehicles

    For anyone interested in investing in the mining follow Benchmark Minerals on twitter. They also run a "World Tour" series of conferences (free to attend). I go along for the investment presentations.

    World Tour 2019 | Benchmark Minerals

    See also Benchmark Minerals (@benchmarkmin) | Twitter
     
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  20. euro73

    euro73 Well-Known Member Business Member

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    Some of the BMW M cars and Mercedes AMG cars are already doing this. They send artificial engine noise into the cars speakers because the engine note from the smaller ,turbo charged performance engines isnt "quite" raucous enough by itself to provide that primal "oh yeah" kinda response to the driver. It creates a sort of digital soundtrack designed to convince the driver their exhaust note is still like the old days...
     
    Last edited: 12th Apr, 2019
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