Electoral Manipulation

Discussion in 'Politics' started by wategos, 15th Sep, 2018.

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  1. wategos

    wategos Well-Known Member

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    {Note from mods - these posts split from this thread: I am part of the resistance...}


    I only watch the real news.. so I looked it up. Seems some employees at google (not Google itself) were donating to a community service assisting people get to the polling booth who had trouble getting there on a work day (since they have a strange practice of holding their elections on a Tuesday...).

    Whats wrong with helping people to vote ? Would you rather voter suppression which is actively pursued by the republicans and is a real problem there
    Voter suppression in the United States - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 13th Oct, 2018
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  2. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    One form of voter suppression is the gerrymander, as practiced by both sides of politics. We saw it happen in Queensland in the Joh Bjelke-Peterson days, where the gerrymander which kept him in power for so long was instrumental in him losing power.

    There are court cases in the US now, especially in North Carolina, which has some particularly strong gerrymander electorates, drawn by Republicans, but initiated by Democrats. Courts appear to be ruling against the gerrymander borders, but there are some confusing reports on that; those borders will probably stay until after the midterms.

    California has an independent commission to draw electoral borders. Australia has the Australian Electoral Commission.
     
  3. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    In case anyone was wondering what gerrymandering meant:

    1. manipulate the boundaries of (an electoral constituency) so as to favour one party or class

    So, basically the lines have been been drawn so the majority the Dem voters fall into one electorate (as far as possible) - the Dems then win that one seat by a landslide, but only that one seat
     
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  4. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    I heard this morning there are something like 70,000 voters who have a slight mis-match in their voter registration. They are not notified there is a problem, nor given a chance to rectify it.

    It could be a missing hyphen, very simple stuff. They are all sitting in a drawer, and the process is being controlled by the Republican who is running for office. Dodgy as...

    I think 70% of the withheld paperwork is for African Americans.

    I just found this...

    https://campaignlegal.org/sites/default/files/2018-10/GA FINAL.pdf

    And Trump cannot stop talking about the thousands of voters bussed in to vote in New York (or whatever place he claims this happened). Just silly and easily provable this didn't happen. I wonder what he thinks about 70,000 voters not able to vote due to a Republican holding this up?
     
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  5. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    Last edited: 12th Oct, 2018
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  6. wategos

    wategos Well-Known Member

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    Republicans specialize in preventing people voting and gerrymandering the system, it´s one of the ways they win. Unfortunately the supreme court makeup now will hinder attempts to change this.
     
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  7. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    So you explain how did Obama win twice??? Serious question!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 13th Oct, 2018
  8. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    Gerrymandering affects congressional districts within states. It doesn't affect electoral colleges, used for presidential elections, which apply for an entire state.

    For instance, the state of Pennsylvania has close to 50% support for each of Republicans and Democrats. Trump won 48.18% of the state vs Hillary's 47.46%, so took all 20 votes of the electoral college. In 2012 Obama took 51.97% v Romney's 46.59%.

    Despite the evenness of support for the two parties, because of the electoral boundaries, Republicans won 13 out of 18 seats for the House but with 54% of the vote statewide.
    Why Pa. sends too many Republicans to Washington - and why that could change

    The state government, which is Republican controlled, is responsible for the boundaries.

    The boundaries have been the subject of a number of court cases, going up to the supreme court.
    Pennsylvania, gerrymandered: A guide to Pa.’s congressional map redistricting fight

    A few states have boundaries drawn up by independant commissions rather than by the government in power.

    The supreme court has so far rejected cases appealing the validity of gerrymandering in Texas and North Carolina, voting on party lines.

    Trump called a map of Pennsylvania which attempted to make a fairer distribution "unfair to Republicans"
     
  9. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    They desperately need separation and independence in relation to those who make the rules - and those who benefit from the rules
     
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  10. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    The majority of countries do have separation. In most countries where there isn't a separation, proportional voting means that the boundaries aren't quite as important. It's only the US and France where legislatures are responsible for boundaries where there's a first past the post system.
    How do other countries handle redistricting?

    (That link has other pages about gerrymandering).

    Democrats aren't better than Republicans - it's just that there are many more state legislatures under Republican control.

    Some states (like California) have independent commissions.
     
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  11. Alain

    Alain Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand how people think their side would never partake in gerrymandering or other forms of electoral manipulation. Democrats are just as bad as republicans and the republicans are just as bad as democrats. All this "well republicans do this to increase their vote" or "democrats do this to increase their vote" might make whoever feel a little bit better when their side loses but it really isn't enough to sway elections. The US has a a large and divided population, the level of electoral fraud to sway an election would have to be massive and systematic bordering on levels seen in third world dictatorships, usually military dictatorships.
     
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  12. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    The party in power controls the gerrymandering and can redraw the lines (my understanding anyway). It needs to be an independent body to stop any party from having their fingers in the pie.
     
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  13. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    I absolutely agree that no side is better than the other - as I mentioned in the previous post.

    It just happens that there's more Republican state governments at the moment.

    Maryland, with a Democrat government, is very heavily gerrymandered.

    California is one of the few states with an independent boundaries commission. This commission was brought about by a Republican government.

    Australia hasnt been exempt either. Joh Bjelke-Petersen held power through a variation of the Gerrymandering, where rural districts with smaller populations supporting the Country Party had a proportionally bigger influence than city electorates.
    Bjelkemander - Wikipedia
     
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  14. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    I know - we don't need another thread, but there was nothing else to put this topic under.

    Every day new reports of voter fraud and suppression in the US mid-terms ... but not from the voters themselves but those in charge of Republican held states. I am boggled about what is being reported - the latest of which is voting machines in Georgia changing the selected Democrat rep for the Secretary of State office, to the Republican rep ... the Republican rep just happens to be in charge of voting in the state:

    NAACP: Georgia votes for Democrat Stacey Abrams are being changed t...

    Then add in that the Democrat representative for Arkansas was left off the voting ballot all together:

    Arkansas Democrat was left off one county's ballot as early voting began

    Then add all the suppression of voters via delays in processing their registration until after the midterms:

    Georgia sued for placing thousands of voter registrations on hold before election

    Hundreds of thousands having their formal registrations cancelled due to not having a physical postal address (because the post office doesn't deliver there) - or cancelled due to a data entry error on behalf of the electoral office (don't forget the hyphen)

    The State of Georgia Cancels Registration of Over Half-Million Voters | The Source
    Article claims thousands of Indiana voter registrations purged

    Note that these are all occurring in Republican held states. I am flummoxed by the audacity and straight out unfairness - dare I say corruption ...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 25th Oct, 2018
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  15. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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  16. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Suppression by stealth - again Republican states (Arizona, Texas, Louisiana, Florida and Georgia) - closing down polling stations and/or making them difficult to access in majority black or minority group areas

    Across U.S., polling stations are slowly disappearing

    Makes me grateful to live in Australia
     
    Last edited: 25th Oct, 2018
  17. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    I was having a back and forth discussion with an American, who is now a naturalised Australian, about the electoral differences between here and her country of birth.

    Her demeanor was not good and her attitude was here we attempt to get voters onto the electoral roll and keep them on compared with some areas of America which try and deny its citizens the right to vote. A broken democracy was her view and it wasn't going to get better for a long time if ever - assuming the country stays in one piece.
     
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  18. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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  19. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: 25th Oct, 2018
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  20. Natascha

    Natascha Active Member

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    just as an opinion from an outsider...this is what you get when you have neither compulsory voting (like here) nor compulsory ID cards and police registration like in Germany. You can’t have everything. There must be a way for the state to control who votes and in that sense I understand the Republican Party. I obviously also think that preventing people from voting is fraudulent and it should be impossible. The Land of Freedom has some flaws.
     

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