Duplex/subdivision - "torrens title"

If you have a block of land and build a duplex & subdivide so it becomes two distinct properties, is that any different to "subdivision" where regulations are applied by council?

Had an REA tell me "torrens title" subdivision is different to eg creating a battleaxe block. Apart from council requirements (eg my local council requires minimum areas & exclude the access handle) are they different? I thought most property title was TT these days ...

 

Subdivisions is the dividing of one title into 2 or more titles.
Torrens title is the system of title by registration as opposed to old system title.

 

OK thanks - you've confirmed my thoughts.

I'm thinking the REA doesn't know what he's talking about - bit of a worry since he is supposed to have 10 years experience!

 

It sounds like the agent was referring to the different types of titling - ie torrens, strata, community etc. Battleaxe subdivisions generally fall under strata/community dependent on the location so it might not mean they don't know what they're talking about - but you misunderstood what they were saying.

 

Duplex in council speak (NSW) is usually termed Dual Occupancy (attached) or Dual Occupancy (detached). The council then defines them in the LEP dictionary as two dwellings on one lot of land.
Normally you would only consider this route if your land was too small (according to min lot size mapping in the council LEP) to be Torrens Title sub-divided.

Usually if you do build a Dual Occ you would then "sub-divide" the Dual Occupancy under Strata subdivision. (There are some exceptions to this but generally this would be the pattern).

 

In my experience it is the other way in that when you build a dual occupancy that included subdivision it will be torrens title rather than strata.

Not to say that they dont exist but I am yet to come across any areas where dual occupancies are starta-subdivisioned.

The use of strata should usually be in place where there are multiple properties and common areas where body corporates may get involved rather than for a dual occupancy

 

OK point conceded.

That's all I have seen too (in my very limited experience); except where the block is clearly too small for torrens title.

Going off the topic a bit - why would a developer ever choose community title over strata title?

 

In Western Australia, residential subdivision is assessed using the Residential Design Codes of Western Australia (R-Codes). The R-Codes were revised in 2015. I was talking to a real estate agent about lot sizes for a particular site. What he was saying wasn't adding up. Turns out he didn't know about the revisions to the R-Codes.

Don't take town planning advice from real estate agents!

 

Yes - the types of easements which may need to be created differ - battleaxe may have a right of way and easements for services over the other block whereas a duplex may have an easement for support over the common wall.

 

I think your agent is trying to compare torrens title subdivision to strata subdivision.

You will need to look at the Local Environment Plan (LEP) and see what the minimum lot size is and other requirements for a battle axe block. If your are able to meet LEP requirements, then you can do a Torrens title subdivision. If you can't meet LEP requirements, then you may have to do a strata subdivision.

From a selling point of view, you want to avoid doing a strata subdivision because there is all the hassle of the future owners having to pay strata fees, maintaining common property etc. Torrens title subdivided battle axe blocks would sell for more purely for this reason.

 

I have worked on some dual occupancies that have been strata subdivided, but I have only seen them done on lot sizes which don't meet LEP requirements.

 

I have seen a couple of community titles recently in QLD where they were larger blocks (just over an acre) but zoned rural residential (min lot size 1 acre). Neither of the two I saw for sale gave any indication in the advertisement that they were not torrens titles. I was surprised when I looked up the council mapping to find in each case they were on the same block as the house next door.

Upon further investigation I then found the council MCU submission for construction of a detached dwelling in both cases. It somehow seemed unusual to me that you would have a community title on a large detached house in a semi-rural neighbourhood. I personally would not buy either of the ones that I saw simply due to the fact that the price they were asking for both was the same as what you can find a similar house on a torrens title. In one case, the house was an 18 month old spec home worth $203k (according to the companies website) and the asking price is $895k. I am very interested to see if they get it.

Prior to working out what was going on, I emailed the agent on one of them and asked if it was a torrens title. Here is the answer I got "The property is on its own lot with separate water and power. It was carved off an adjoining property hence Lot 1, but has the same rights as any other single property". Hardly very transparent! I wonder how many people will get past the negotiating process only to be alerted to the fact by their conveyancer.

 

There are lots of duplexes popping up in Waverley Council (Sydney) where I live that only qualify for strata subdivision because they don't meet the minimum lot size under the LEP, however the council seems to support (to some extent) dual occupancy because it allows them to create in-fill dwellings. Although they qualify for strata subdivision, I'm also noticing that the majority of these seem to remain not subdivided and kept as investment properties or in the same family.

 

I built a granny flat on a approx 800 sqm corner block in Western Sydney region behind a older house. This granny flat (60sq.m internal + 12sqm patio at the front) is entirely separated from the other house with a boundary fence, having its own street address, own separate gas, electricity (on same power board though) and water meters. However the total land area for the GF is only 10m x 24m. I doubt if this can be torrens titled due to the lot size criteria. So my question is, is strata subdivision possible? Both are currently tenanted but I am thinking of the possibility of selling them when the property market going back up a bit. Thanks.

 

@ravilo - if this is a granny flat, then you aren't able to subdivide (refer to Part 2 Division 2 State Environmental Planning Policy (Affordable Rental Housing) 2009 (ARHSEPP) was introduced on 31 July 2009). If however it was approved as dual occupancy, a different set of legislation would apply (Council LEP & DCP).

 

Hey @ravilo and @Scott No Mates , would it be possible to decommission the granny flat and then reapply for strata subdivision? I have read somewhere (cant remember where) that it might be a possibility?

 

@Excalibur1 - ask your town planner.

 

Certain Council LEP's have different minimum lot sizes for different titles. Eg. - Torrens title minimum is 500m2, Strata title is 400m2 etc etc

So sometimes if the site cannot meet the minimum lot size for a Torrens title they might go for a strata title so it is still subdivided and can be sold separately.

It depends on which Council because many of them have the same lot size regardless of title.

Battle axe blocks can be Torrens. Most land subdivisions are Torrens.

Torrens is always No.1 , then strata, then community when it comes to desirability.

Cheers

 

Where is this property located?

Being that the properties are conjoined, I think strata subdivision would be the way forward as long as you aren't building a GrannyFlat (this is deemed a secondary dwelling and always attached to the original main dwelling, subdivision is not possible from what I've seen)

If the dwellings are detached, and not under the umbrella of Granny flat, have the adequate spacing/private open space/setbacks, then a Torrens Title subdivision may be possible.

To get the best advice you should engage a town planner experience in the LEP where the property resides.