Dual-Key / Twin-Key Dwelling Examples

Discussion in 'Development' started by theperthurbanist, 17th Nov, 2016.

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  1. Brisbane_reader

    Brisbane_reader Well-Known Member

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    For the most part it's to imorove the yield by a cost saving, not improve capital gains or gross revenue. With some councils i.e. Logan you can self assess the dwelling rather than have to get council to, saving you $10k+ on the build cost versus a duplex.
     
  2. Beelzebub

    Beelzebub Well-Known Member

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    Any examples in Victoria?
     
  3. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, my experience as someone who has just built a pair of "dual occ" properties, its not worth the cost savings.

    Tenants much prefer as much separation as possible. You will get higher rents, an easier time finding tenants, and less tenant vs tenant disputes if you make the dwellings detached and fenced off from each other.
     
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  4. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    @theperthurbanist My advice to you if you want to build a 'dual key' type property would be to use the ancillary dwelling provisions of the Rcodes to build something with the appearance of two standalone dwellings.
     
  5. Connor

    Connor Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to know this also... I've only seen the side by side type dual occs in Vic, which can be titled seperately..
     
  6. theperthurbanist

    theperthurbanist Well-Known Member

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  7. theperthurbanist

    theperthurbanist Well-Known Member

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    I guess sometimes the simplest solutions are the best ones...

    My current interest in dual-key is around discussing some options with a client that deliver increased dwelling numbers on a site. Ancillary dwellings is certainly something that has been considered too (and will form one of the options) along with a few small lot housing types. It's funny though - in my experience developers get a lot more excited about dual-key than they do about granny flats (despite the advantages you mention around being able to present them as separate dwellings). I guess it is something about anyone (with enough land) being able to add an ancillary dwelling to their property, whereas a dual-key offers a point of difference in being a specific product that can be marketed as something 'new' (at least in WA). Not nescissarily better, just different (and perhaps sexier).
     
  8. tobe

    tobe Well-Known Member

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    Anyone have any anecdotal or studies on capital growth for this type of property? They have been hard to finance, as noted above, but that might change if they become more mainstream.
    and for areas like the sunshine coast, tenants might start to put up with them if that's all they have to choose from.
     
  9. Sonamic

    Sonamic Well-Known Member

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    Tenants are putting up with them. The more popular ones are a double with separate single garage frontage. Some estates insist that the secondary dwelling entry not be visible from the street so as to give the street appeal of a large house and theoretically keeping surrounding values up. One estate I built in last year practically every single corner block was zoned duplex allotment. Density is the way of the future. Sunshine Coast House on 600sqm near beach, GOLD.
     
  10. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    My issue in Perth would be how the 2 sides are separated for a fire perspective and how insurance will handle it AND of course councils.

    This is because:
    - more then 5 unrelated people in one dwelling is not allowed in WA and I'm pretty sure this would still be classified as one dwelling
    - if a fire starts in side A and destroys tenant B's belongings how is this handled from an insurance perspective
    - from a building perspective if it was 2 dwellings there would be a fire wall between to prevent the fire spreading, would this still be there? Would there be a fire door at the entrance between them to protect both sides

    I'm absolutely all for dual income properties but I'd rather do it using the Ancillary Dwelling provisions and have them detached from each other or actual duplexes or a dwelling plus Single Bedroom Dwelling
     
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  11. theperthurbanist

    theperthurbanist Well-Known Member

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    Typically need full fire wall insulation, as far as I am aware. Means an increase in cost, but then you are saving on the cost of constructing two separate structures so it might be about equivalent to an ancillary. I've heard $80-$100k extra to construct an dual-key over a typical dwelling. From what I understand this is in the same range as the cost of a granny flat ($60-$100k).
     
  12. theperthurbanist

    theperthurbanist Well-Known Member

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    Anecdotally, most advisors/commentators seem to think they offer potentially lower CG than single dwellings. Probably due to the smaller market for a niche product. I've heard others say thought that given the very high yield for these properties they should have really good resale values going forward due to investor demand. Hard for anyone to really know though given that, as @Jess Peletier mentioned, there are very few comparable sales at this stage with which to compare growth against other properties in the same area.

    My gut feel is the long term CG prospects will depend on how the Australian market/local markets take to this dwelling type; whether they become a common and easily understood property type; whether they have positive or negative connotations attached; whether Australian families take to multi-generational/multi-family housing and to what extent investors target them. Lots of variables.

    As mentioned previously, they are predominantly a cash flow investment for most people, with some uncertainty around whether they will under or outperform the market in terms of capital growth.
     
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  13. theperthurbanist

    theperthurbanist Well-Known Member

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    Interesting implications for insurance. I'm not actually sure what the policy is on this. I guess it might be the same as living in a built strata unit with no strata plan, where you have your own dwelling but essentially own/are renting a % of the whole complex? Who is the EBM Insurance employee on these forums again?
     
  14. mcarthur

    mcarthur Well-Known Member

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    I don't see the benefit of dual-key unless the cost is hugely better. The only benefit seems to be in locales where it isn't legal to have two separately rentable houses on the same property, or where the area doesn't permit 2 dwellings.
    In all other cases, 2 separate dwellings seem to offer better choice: it works for both investors and families wanting to keep older and younger members at home, like dual key. There's possibilities in the (perhaps) distant future of subdividing. There's likely better CG. There's the nicer option for people living there to be more separate to their neighbour.
    The only other possible benefit - and only if designed AND built for it - is the option to be able to knock down a partition/wall between the two parts and make it into a single large residence. Now of course there are council issues with a single residence that has two kitchens, which is usually frowned upon. And the wall in common must be fire rated so is harder to remove (although it could be well designed and just an already-framed doorway to remove).
     
  15. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    Strata plan dwellings would be built to protect each other from fire though. So I am assuming insurance will only be eligable if there is a fire protection system/product to separate and protect inside the dual occ house.
     
  16. RetireRich101

    RetireRich101 Well-Known Member

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    If a newly built attached dual occ, this shouldn't be a problem as the common wall would be fire rated...

    In NSW, I separated an existing single level dwelling (5 bed, 2 bath) into 3 bed (Main) and 2 bed (Granny Flat). The configuration would be identical to the attached dual income property which I could rented out to 2 separate house hold legally all done by private certifier...
    The fire rated wall we put up for seperation is no different to other gyprock walls, except it is bit thicker, stronger (similar to the fiber cement sheet) that is fire rating. It was 60min fire rating on each side, so take an 2 hour to take down to penetrate the wall from fire. It needs to go from base to the tip of roof, in other words need to penetrate the ceiling then extend roof truss..
    If it cost $2k to put up a normal (non fire rated) internal wall, then it will cost about $3-4K for the same, but fire rated wall.
    If private certifier satisfies the work and issue a final inspection certificate, then what ever happens in future of a fire, I would think Insurer would have no issues insuring it, me thinks.
     
  17. RetireRich101

    RetireRich101 Well-Known Member

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    This is true when land is cheap, but they rarely do. it's based on $ per m2... Given a 800m2 with a reasonable good frontage, yes 2 detached dwelling would be a the best option.

    If you want keep everything cheap then the land component needs to be cheap or smaller lot size...

    In Logan, there are developer's doing dual income total floor area 186m2 (122m2 Main 3/1/1 and 64m2 Aux 1/1/1)...on a 360m2 land

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  18. Yuga

    Yuga Member

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  19. 10927

    10927 Member

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    I agree there are a few builders popped up lately on the Gold Coast that only build these types of homes. They are designed to be money makers - live in one side and rent out the other. It makes for a dense suburb population but I guess people are jumping at it to have their houses as part investment / part live in. I can recommend one good builder that I know building these - 3 beds on both sides I think the total cost for the build is around $400-$450k. They MUST be separated by a firewall however to be classified as a dual key home and rent out one side (legally). I am fairly sure they are always registered as a community title property.
     
  20. radioactive

    radioactive Well-Known Member

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    If the council approves a dual dwelling at the building stage then doesn't it mean that it satisfies the necessary compliances and regulations?Please correct me if I am wrong
     

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