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Discussion in 'Property Experts' started by larrylarry, 26th Aug, 2015.

  1. Jess Peletier

    Jess Peletier Mortgage Broker - Australia Wide Business Member

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    What you're missing is the fact that you're using equity from an IP and you'll very likely be a) very poorly structured financially and b) have no idea about the actual end valuation of the property due to any shortfall in valuation being paid for out of equity.

    The biggest issue in these scenarios is you end up paying WAY too much for the property (for eg, pay $470k for a property that's only worth $400k) that results in years of waiting for growth before you break even. Add to that, you've also got your other IP tied up in the deal which further restricts you if you ever wanted to refinance.

    It can get very messy. If it sounds to good to be true it always is.
     
  2. silverman47

    silverman47 Member

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    Drawing a LOC from an existing IP will attract an interest payment. Under this scenario and based on the properties observed on their FB page, these properties would be significantly negatively geared. Claims that they are neutrally/positively geared would be based on a 20%+ cash deposit. I suggest you prepare your own cashflow sheet.
     
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  3. silverman47

    silverman47 Member

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    Correct Jess. Their FB page contains a complaint whereby a deal fell through as a result of a failed bank valuation. The customer requested a full return of their DDP payment but DDP refused and only offered a partial payment. With any investment, a failed bank valuation should be cause for alarm. As should their reluctance to repay the full fee.
     
  4. Sonyad

    Sonyad Active Member

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    My Experience with Investing in DDP has been one of the most upsetting and disgusting situations, I have ever had dealt with.
    I wanted to look for a 2nd property after I had purchased one in Leumeah NSW. Due to work and family reasons I needed to use a buying agent as I didn’t have time to source a suitable property.
    I unfortunately had been given poor advice from a broker for the 1st property and missed getting the sizable growth I could have got in the Sydney property market at the time.
    My aim was to acquire the right property, build a property portfolio while I still could when working.
    I wanted to choose a group that had the expertise to get me this type of property and build a rapid property portfolio.
    I found DDP though a face book sponsored ad. I checked their reviews online. I only saw good reports; the founder had reviews on SMH and channel 7 and the founder’s story of building a rapid property portfolio.
    I had the sales appointment and was pitched the history of real wealth through property investing. I was told about the out of state zone where the property was being sourced. Why it was suitable, how it would be serviceable and make positive gains and the urgency of getting in.
    I was assured their research was specialised and they only took on selected clients that don’t over question the presented properties and trust in what’s presented. I was told against viewing the property, that this isn't an emotional purchase, it's an investment and to rely on the group who have done there thorough research.
    I mentioned my goal of acquiring a property portfolio while working and not yet married.
    The meet in my opinion, looking back (after purchasing the properties) was sales coercive, misleading and deceptive. I was told to put down a holding deposit for the consultancy fee, if I didn’t get approval they refund me.
    I was to sign page 1, page 2, the terms and conditions was only referred to be read after I made the holding payment. In the bottom left hand side in tiny print is point, 12 which states the agent doesn’t make guarantees and the buyer must rely on their own inspections. Very contradictory to what I have described above.
    I paid the remainder of the consultancy fee which was quite expensive however I didn’t know at the time what a suitable fee was for this service was and had trusted what was being presented.
    I was emailed property specifications which I was anticipating would look like the Face book examples on the group’s web page. In comparison it was a poorer looking property. I was encouraged to choose it, or approval period would quickly go.
    Only one other property was sent prior however this was no longer available.
    The property condition on the inspection report was fair.
    There were big trees blocking the front of the property which needed to be cut down. A negotiation was made only half way with the selling agent for tree removal cost.
    This would cost me a couple of thousand dollars on top of the purchase price and the consultancy fee of $11,900. The tree removal was only removed at the stumps when I asked one of the staff why they weren't they removed by the roots, he said the stumps were poisoned and this is considered removal.
    I found out later through the real estate property manager, leaving it at the stumps was a potential public liability issue due to kids tenants and the, potential of tripping over . I had to pay over $ 4,000 of my own money more to remove it.
    6 months into buying the property, the bank’s lending rules were changing and because I wanted to obtain a property portfolio while I could, I asked to be found at 2nd property.
    I was told of a 2nd property by the group next door that had become available. I was told by the group this would be a potential zoning opportunity due to the combined land size, opportunity for 3 townhouses and granny flats to be built.
    I was told this would be a fantastic future wealth opportunity as the area for the properties was undergoing a strong growth. I paid another consultancy fee and chose it for mainly for the zoning reason.
    I found out later while speaking to many professionals in the industry, other buyers agents, local real estate’s agents, and local council and given detailed research, the chosen area by the group is not a boom area that was spruiked to me. There are many variables affecting the current and future Growth of the Logan central and neighbouring suburbs.
    Highways enclose the sourced area and the other suburbs over the other side, Mackenzie and spring wood have a nicer demographic.
    New developments known by the local council since 2011 to be built soon close to Logan and its neighbouring suburbs will very likely affect future appeal and population growth.
    Other buying agents and selling agents have mentioned to me the extent new developments can affect pre-existing suburbs in south east Queensland area, for example the starting of the new suburb Springfield Lakes.
    I also found out through the council and town planner, the zoning opportunity I chose the property for was not an option, it wasn’t in the zoning area, was under the land size and away from sewage requirements
    I travelled to see the properties, from what I saw the street side where properties were, were in a derelict state. I also could see with my eyes the properties needed renovation to make it desirable long-term.
    I got valuations done on the properties. I found out then that other properties in the area are used for valuations which were renovated.
    I only got a 1 or 2K more than my purchase price. I didn’t have enough to renovate. I could only use money from my Sydney property. However since I already used equity to pay for these last two properties I wasn't in the position to take out more.
    When I look back I remember when querying to the group about the area and growth I was told often Logan would grow like Mount Druitt or Redfern. South East Queensland however after the long term research, I have collected is not a sprawling city like Sydney and is affected by many more variables as I mentioned earlier, that can strongly change the area growth
    The zoning also I confirmed can only be relooked at when council makes new laws.
    I found out from the selling agent at the time he did mention potential zoning to the group client at the purchasing stage however it was the group’s responsibility to check if this was accurate due the fee I paid for their service. I thought as a repeated client now, my customer relationship would of been valued.
    Overall my experience with the group in my opinion has been really unsatisfactory.
    The service was substandard, the knowledge was lacking compared to the investigation I have done in the area.
    I’m stuck with properties that weren’t what I expected and paid for. I doubt any sizable future property growth will happen. I have been told by various industry professionals (that won’t make any monetary gain from me) to sell the two properties.
    I am experiencing constant headaches with upkeep. One tenant stopped paying rent and by court order was forced to leave and I had to claim 16 weeks unpaid rent by the insurer.
    Ongoing maintenance issues come up. It is very hard to find maintenance, repair people for small matters that are available. When I try to find someone reasonable to help me budget is near impossible.
    The overheads for insurance and other safety measures i.e. home alarms required for Queensland is high and not as competitive as Sydney.
    I have recently got a renovation quote which will be in the excess of 20K for each property.
    I look back and wonder why my budget and renovating costs weren’t factored in.
    I have found out through the selling agents that no negotiations were made to lower the properties.
    The consultancy fee for the value in my opinion was not worth it. I paid $13,900 for the 2nd property along with the $11,900.00 for the 1st property.
    I have been told by other professionals in the industry, it would only cost a few thousand dollars for the service I received from the group.
    I am very disappointed and am stuck with the risk the properties not being tenanted again, renovation costs and rising interest rates. One of the properties the tenants moved away just before Christmas, the rent had to be reduced and am still trying to find someone.
    The risk levels of my loans are too high and in the event of rising interest rates I might run the risk of forfeiting the properties all while waiting for a little equity to cover the sale costs.
    I wish I had the time to do this myself as I could of done a far better job, I know this for next time. However I was relying on the group to provide me this service that I paid a high sum for.
     
  5. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

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    me personally, when a company signs up to post, unless there is a second side to the story or set the story straight ,or always , it always makes them look bad
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 6th Feb, 2017
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  6. silverman47

    silverman47 Member

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    How do you suggest they respond? Or do you suggest they just accept having their brand trashed on an anonymous forum? Businesses put in a lot of money into building brands. I believe it is within their rights to protect it. if they have acted illegally, this is a different case.
     
  7. BeefEater

    BeefEater Active Member

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    Got this email the other day. They're now offering $9k kickback for referral of a new client.

    Zaki Email.png
     
  8. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    Just counter the arguments with facts. For e.g. if the individual was told against viewing the property, Just say no it is not company policy period and an incorrect statement. (clients are never advised to do this)

    Rather than having a one liner saying hey - we are happy to settle the matter. A lot of businesses (much larger than buyers agency from restaurants, corporates. building companies etc) get bad reviews all the time. Also, there should be some level of warranty on services provided based on the specification. Having accurate and correct representations (whether verbal or written) are important as all individuals consume time and dollars in property purchases.
     
  9. silverman47

    silverman47 Member

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    Any "facts" would still remain unqualified as this is an anonymous fourm. And if the company was to respond, they would have to sign up which is against TMNT's comment. This is the big problem with anonymous forums and social media in general. I would also consider it to be unprofessional for a company to air the details of a customer issue on a public forum.
     
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  10. Lian

    Lian New Member

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    Hi

    The first we heard of these concerns was in this public forum. As a team we were disappointed about this since we have had positive testimonials from Sonya, these are available in the public domain, namely YouTube, as seen on the DDP channel.

    We have not been contacted by Sonya prior to this post in regards to these concerns, nor have we been given a fair opportunity to resolve them.

    We had made repeated attempts to contact Sonya in order to fully understand the situation.
    This week we finally got through to Sonya and are now awaiting correspondence from her with a more detailed outline of the issue at hand in order to resolve it swiftly & amicably for her.

    We encourage fellow investors to note & view this independently. DDP was founded over 5 years ago and has to date helped clients purchase over 1000 properties. Understandably, the majority of our clients would keep their personal finances private, yet we have received over 100 positive testimonials in the past 12 months that can be found online on Facebook, Google, Youtube and the DDP Website.

    We eagerly anticipate Sonya's correspondence, should resolving the issue at hand be her first and foremost priority.

    Sincerely ,
    Lian.
     
  11. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    Well Airbnb, uber eats, eBay and many share economy use reviews to get accurate feedback. They have are millions of users and generate millions in income and millions of people use them to make their decision to use services or not. Nothing wrong to sign up so many other buyers agents do it but sign up officially with name title. Rather than signing up with multiple usernames but from the Same ip and get called out by the moderator

    U don't have to air personal comments just stick to company policy or standards. What is fact vs fiction is very straight up. Was there any comments or recommendations to not view any Property prior to purchase? If a company is as good as it says it is there should be no issue handling a few complaints from disgruntled customers
     
  12. silverman47

    silverman47 Member

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    I agree with the comment re: "recommendation to not view the property". Was this a verbal comment or was it formally documented? If it was the former, it could be he said vs She said? It could get very messy and a bad look for the company online. There is an old saying that relates to journalists, "never wrestle with a pig in the mud. You will both end up with crap all over you, the difference is, the pig loves it" (particularly when it is from an anonymous site).
     
  13. Sonyad

    Sonyad Active Member

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    Sydney
    Hi lian,
    I will copy the exact reply I added to whirlpool
    In the morning yesterday
    Please note everyone lians pm reply where the same attempt at discrediting me has been made.
    Whirlpool reply yesterday 10.22am
    Hi everyone
    In response to lians comments,I have had following phone conversation with her last Thursday at 9.38am when I asked for my phone conversation to be emailed. I have followed up with a prompt reply and have am now corresponding with Zaki as he was ccd and replied
    I also called lain twice before phone conversations within the day leaving saved voice messages.
    It's very interesting lian is trying to discredit me when I when there are strong claims being made against DDP not just by myself on sites.

    I have reasons why I have gone to reviews ;
    - I believed in DDP due to your property story you advertised.
    - I continued with the second property as it was presented to me as a zoning option that was meant to be checked with the council and wasn't.
    - When I found the zoning option was not valid and thus didn’t met my criteria I lost trust in DDP.
    - I began to review my property portfolio and found other unbiased public data about the sourced area, which has made me lose my trust altogether.
    - Due to the issues I have experienced with these properties, and what they have failed to provide, ( this can impact the investor long term) putting a post to make others aware in my opinion is reasonable.

    it due to the massive trust I lost with DDP after seeing not one two properties I purchased,in my experience fail to
    For something so serious and long term as property. I want to seek resolution and inform people as principle my experience.
    The testimonials and YouTube were at the start of the DDP journey prior to what I uncovered as mentioned above , I would prefer they be removed in lieu of my experience.
    as mentioned in my other post, I am replying to zaki by end of day today.
    Regards
    Sonya

     
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  14. Sonyad

    Sonyad Active Member

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    Hi everyone. I would like to add I have emailed Zaki At 8.30pm with what requested costs I am
    Seeking as a consumer under Australian law.
    Before lians post here.
     
  15. Sonyad

    Sonyad Active Member

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    Hi melbourinan,
    Might be interesting to let the other participants to this thread view the thread on logan lea which my initial post cause it mentioned logan was linked there. As you probably seen as being part of the thread, an interesting interaction with another member. I ask people check it out, it's quite funny what some will do to try to intimidate and stop customer experience being notified where it matters.
     
  16. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    going back - my post was based on your views of logan, difficulty of tenants, overall area etc (maybe not 100% related to building in logan - but about logan no doubt) To be honest, there are lots of other non-relevance posts on this overall forum now and then, so not sure why some posters are so selective :).
    I don't think the poster is trying to limit your customer experience it's just that maybe has put a lot of coin into logan and they're in love with loganistan :)
     
    Last edited: 17th Jan, 2017
  17. bobbyj

    bobbyj Well-Known Member

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    Obviously not all BA can be put into the single basket, but this is perhaps one of the main reasons why I haven't decided to use a buyer's agent myself yet.
    Most seem to start off hungry to satisfy and look out for client's needs, once they grow they fulfil their own needs. A few unhappy customers here and there, bad service (non existent), and letting down clients.

    I read that book Zaki wrote about how he came to Australia and hustled, worked his butt off and saw success. A true hustler.
    An extended friend of mine had a similar recount of her experience with this agency. Demanded a refund to which she was entitled and essentially ignored. No replies to emails or phone calls.

    Looks like it's now green investors are the ones getting hustled.

    Good on you for bringing your issues to a public forum for potential clients to see. It solidifies what my suspicions were on this lot.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 18th Jan, 2017
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  18. Sonyad

    Sonyad Active Member

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    I had hope for the area too trust me after one year was hopefully until the intensive research mounted.
    Unfortunately the opposing research stacks up too high. Queensland is hard enough to predict solid growth, when you have factors such as new suburbs gaining popularity, massive development cities, 3 confirmed neighbouring the area and demographic problems. Your head wonders is this really an area to grow my portfolio well. How long do we really have to grow a multiple property investment portfolio. The effective way usually done is 2-3 more in 2-3 years, think about working life, kids the capacity for banks to lend in certain peoples life stages
    It's easy for someone to gloat on the area If he is in the position to make gain from investors. However investors should make there own independent decision which is done by not listening to a spruiker though getting an array of research on there own.
    Of course I had trust to pay a buyers agent cause I didn't have time. I realise now this shouldn't be done not for out of state properties and non when there's so much trust relied upon. It's best to do it yourself or go to at least a few buyers agents and examine the value for the service and extend of what they know about the area
    I didn't achieve the property portfolio goal and the properties weren't what was presented as per my review. I will be likely selling in the near future as it has been such a disappointing investments giving me more headaches I wouldn't wish on anyone
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 18th Jan, 2017
  19. Sonyad

    Sonyad Active Member

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    Hi Bobby,
    Thanks
    Zakis property portfolio and his story is what inspired me and I'm sure others to sign that is what we were presented with before signing. His 2-3 properties after 2-3 years from the first sourced one and so forth
    Great concept, however his properties were purchased in Sydney. He was selling us out of state properties with these claims, however after my experience and what I gathered the groups model didn't stack up to the Sourced area.
    That's what upsets me the most why not try to find me something similar to the model out further to Sydney for eg in Newcastle or Wollongong which connects to bigger sprawling Sydney or outer western Sydney? I already didn't buy well Sydney in the right time and I wanted to fix up my losses and get back on track with my portfolio
    out of state I have found needs to be researched throughly which in my experience and checks wasn't.,
     
  20. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    I personally flew up to have a look at Logan area and determined it wasn't an area to buy in. The demographics were not good and were of lower income percentile which doesn't help if u are looking at prices to grow. Properties in disrepair high insurance costs due to risk of flood etc, news of more housing commissions, jobs wise figures were just so so. I saw lots of crims in the streets. Auctions I went were like dead or basically no action. Logan isn't like a mount druitt as it doesn't have the infra population growth higher incomes u see from Sydney and Melbourne. This was one year ago and I have since bought elsewhere
     
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