Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community

Dream Design Do

Discussion in 'Property Experts' started by larrylarry, 26th Aug, 2015.

  1. Jess Peletier

    Jess Peletier Mortgage Broker - Australia Wide Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,977
    Location:
    Perth WA
    What you're missing is the fact that you're using equity from an IP and you'll very likely be a) very poorly structured financially and b) have no idea about the actual end valuation of the property due to any shortfall in valuation being paid for out of equity.

    The biggest issue in these scenarios is you end up paying WAY too much for the property (for eg, pay $470k for a property that's only worth $400k) that results in years of waiting for growth before you break even. Add to that, you've also got your other IP tied up in the deal which further restricts you if you ever wanted to refinance.

    It can get very messy. If it sounds to good to be true it always is.
     
  2. silverman47

    silverman47 Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    15
    Location:
    Sydney
    Drawing a LOC from an existing IP will attract an interest payment. Under this scenario and based on the properties observed on their FB page, these properties would be significantly negatively geared. Claims that they are neutrally/positively geared would be based on a 20%+ cash deposit. I suggest you prepare your own cashflow sheet.
     
    Simonk1974 and LNVic like this.
  3. silverman47

    silverman47 Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    15
    Location:
    Sydney
    Correct Jess. Their FB page contains a complaint whereby a deal fell through as a result of a failed bank valuation. The customer requested a full return of their DDP payment but DDP refused and only offered a partial payment. With any investment, a failed bank valuation should be cause for alarm. As should their reluctance to repay the full fee.
     
  4. Ben Moorhouse

    Ben Moorhouse Member

    Joined:
    11th Jan, 2017
    Posts:
    7
    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    Hi All,

    As a current unhappy DDP client requesting a refund that they will not give, to a point where I have had to lodge a Fair Trading compliant + a formal complaint to the NSW Consumer Administrative Tribunal (NCAT).

    The issue I have with DDP is that the initial brief was positively geared properties, yet of the 98 properties they had put forward, only 3 met the brief, one being that we passed on as we felt it was over priced, the second an offer was put forward but declined and taken off the market anyway and third it was a new build where we were advised that it would be ready in July 2016, but later found out by contacting the developer direct that they still had earth moving equipment effectively preparing the site still.

    The DDP fee was $14,900 for due to there incompetence and other financial circumstances, we requested our money back and it has been a roller coaster ride ever since.

    Basically of the 9 properties, with 3 only meeting the brief, they offered us $3,000, we refused and we posted a poor feed back on there Face Book and the refund jumper up to $6,000 (around the same time) and it has got as high as $7,500 as the best and final offer. Refused of course.

    How can you trust a buyers agent that its property staff (Samara Metri to be exact) who is an active property investor herself ... I.e. how do we know we are getting the best properties put forward when they buy properties for themselves?

    Also, don't believe there high Face Book ratings as they have found a way to remove poor feed back for which is actually illegal and that I have confirmation that the Department of Fair Trading are looking into.

    There are many Fair Trading complaints logged that I know of.

    Also, anyone who has been offered a refund that there client are willing to accept, it is conditional that they remove any poor feed back before getting it (I have proof of this)

    There people cannot be trusted in my opinion and I suggest anyone looking at dealing with these people, spend a bit of time reading forum reviews and feed back on other sites where possible.

    I have 4 properties, all done on my own with 3 of the 4 with no money out of my pocket. I got sucked into there good marketing as I was time poor. This poor move becoming a DDP client has me out of pocket $14,900+

    Investor beware!

    M
     
  5. BeefEater

    BeefEater Member

    Joined:
    9th Feb, 2016
    Posts:
    22
    Location:
    Sydney & Country NSW
    Sorry to hear about this and thank you for going public about this to warn others. It seems there are quite a number of people going through exactly the same thing. A PC member PM'd me last year and was in the same situation as yours but was too scared to make a formal complaint and was ready to accept forfeiting the full fee as it was starting to be too much of a headache for him.
     
  6. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    2nd Sep, 2015
    Posts:
    1,471
    Location:
    melbourne
    how did you go in the tribunal? Did you win ?
     
  7. Ben Moorhouse

    Ben Moorhouse Member

    Joined:
    11th Jan, 2017
    Posts:
    7
    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    Please ask him to contact me via PM if possible?
     
  8. Ben Moorhouse

    Ben Moorhouse Member

    Joined:
    11th Jan, 2017
    Posts:
    7
    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    I have not been contacted by the tribunal as yet, only fair trading for which I am awaiting a return phone call.

    They are not getting away with my money if I can help it ...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 12th Jan, 2017
  9. Ben Moorhouse

    Ben Moorhouse Member

    Joined:
    11th Jan, 2017
    Posts:
    7
    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    Hi All,

    Further to my comments above ... Please see below email I have sent to the "Property Investor Professionals of Australia" also known as "PIPA"

    I CC'd Zaki Ameer in the email so he can see it ...


    Dear Membership Department / CEO / COO,

    Dream Design Property (DDP) is a current member of your organisation, owned by a Mr Zaki Ameer, and It is with great regret that I have been left with no choice but to provide you with my unhappy experience with DDP, to a point where I have requested a refund for services in part not rendered, only to be told by DDP … NO, for the amount I have requested, but for a lessor amount.

    There are many other current and/or ex DDP clients who also are requesting some form of compensation (I can request they contact PIPA with their own story upon request, I know someone has left a message already for a call back)

    There have been many complaints lodged with the Department of Fair Trading, and 3 (that I know of) lodged with the NSW Consumer & Administrative Tribunal (NCAT) with me being one of them.

    My story in short as follows;

    I signed up to DDP with a fee amount of $14,900 with an agreement that DDP would present (as per my brief) properties that are positively geared.

    Of the 9 properties put forward, only 3 met the brief with the first being passed as I felt it was not right/overpriced, the second I placed an offer, only for it to be knocked back and what I believe taken off the market by the vendor (this property I found later was actually listed on the open market for all to review and offer anyway, therefore why was I paying DDP for something I could have found myself) and the third was a new build that was supposed to be ready in July 2016, only to find out by contacting the agent/developer direct that the property has not been started and would not likely be ready until December 2016!

    All other properties put forward where all negatively geared which did not meet the brief, so not worth mentioning.

    Moral to the story … As an amateur property investor, and owner of 4 properties, I feel that the DDP staff or service provided to me was unacceptable, and showed how very little the property team I was assigned understood my brief (which was not hard – positively geared!).

    Since requesting a refund, I have refused to meet with DDP as I want everything in writing, although several responses by DDP across their Face Book and Whirlpool comments have requested such a meet, not to mention the number of text messages I have saved requesting to meet. I will not meet them as I don’t trust them basically.

    To further add concerns on this company, many reviews on their Face Book page and Whirlpool that I know of so far have had poor reviews removed by DDP (which is illegal according to fair trading and being looked in to) and to add to this, clients who have requested such refunds that have been given by DDP, come with conditions that any poor feedback is to be removed (I have proof of this and I am willing to pass this information at request)

    DDP are in my words, basically blackmailing their clients that if they want a refund, they are to remove any poor comments … Do you think this is ethically right? … Do you think this pastes an accurate picture of DDP to potential clients looking for a buyer’s agent?

    I want a portion of my money Back, DDP will not give it, which leaves me no choice but to voice my experience to the wider property investment community.

    PIPA are a very well-known and respected organisation, and a place for the property investment community to stop in and review and seek advice as required, therefore I feel it is right that PIPA are aware of what is going on behind the scenes by those who have not had a pleasant experience with DDP.

    I have been made privy to many other unhappy DDP clients seeking some sort of compensation for services not rendered, whether in part or full, of just plain bad properties with little to no potential.

    Please let me invite you to Whilrpool.com.au, propertychat.com.au and what is left on their Face Book page that they have not removed as poor ratings.

    I do sincerely apologise having to bring PIPA into this mess, but I feel that as DDP are a member of PIPA, can I please ask that you re-review their membership, as what I believe from an ethical perspective on how DDP conduct their complaints handling, including complaints resolution is not acceptable in any terms, and only puts potential up and coming property investors on caution, which is what the country does not need in my opinion.

    I have CC’d Zaki as the owner of DDP as he needs to take note, and most importantly take ownership, and not farm it out to his staff to resolve as he so likes to note in a text message he has sent me previously!

    Happy to be contacted for further details on 0414 068 294

    With regards,

    Ben Moorhouse
     
    BeefEater and Simonk1974 like this.
  10. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    2nd Sep, 2015
    Posts:
    1,471
    Location:
    melbourne
    Read that whirlpool link seems pretty hardcore some of the stuff ppl were saying abt the choice of properties and also one for the Logan fans shd read
     
  11. Big Will

    Big Will Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,638
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Sorry to hear about your situation there M, hope it works out for you.

    When I first read your post I saw 98 properties they recommended and I was like wow that is a lot did they just do a suburb search on RE.com and put it in haha.

    However it appears 9, which is more digestible.

    Regarding removing negative facebook response I am not 100% sure if it is illegal, probably frowned upon as it is likely it would be governed by some US laws as that is where they are based from.
     
  12. Ben Moorhouse

    Ben Moorhouse Member

    Joined:
    11th Jan, 2017
    Posts:
    7
    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    Latest update all is that Zaki will not give me a refund unless I take down all my forum reviews, which I have declined to do.

    Whirl Pool has allot of talk going at the moment, so please visit there for more details and/or other comments posted.

    Would love to hear from anyone via private message and/or phone on your experience with DDP

    Cheers

    Ben
     
    Frazz and House like this.
  13. Lian

    Lian New Member

    Joined:
    16th Jan, 2017
    Posts:
    2
    Location:
    Sydney
    Hi Ben, thank you for accepting to settle this matter, we will be in touch to finalize asap.

    Lian
     
  14. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    1,534
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I wonder if he did settle or this is just another cunning attempt to make it sound like its settled and hoping
     
    kierank likes this.
  15. Sonyad

    Sonyad Member

    Joined:
    14th Jan, 2017
    Posts:
    21
    Location:
    Sydney
    My Experience with Investing in DDP has been one of the most upsetting and disgusting situations, I have ever had dealt with.
    I wanted to look for a 2nd property after I had purchased one in Leumeah NSW. Due to work and family reasons I needed to use a buying agent as I didn’t have time to source a suitable property.
    I unfortunately had been given poor advice from a broker for the 1st property and missed getting the sizable growth I could have got in the Sydney property market at the time.
    My aim was to acquire the right property, build a property portfolio while I still could when working.
    I wanted to choose a group that had the expertise to get me this type of property and build a rapid property portfolio.
    I found DDP though a face book sponsored ad. I checked their reviews online. I only saw good reports; the founder had reviews on SMH and channel 7 and the founder’s story of building a rapid property portfolio.
    I had the sales appointment and was pitched the history of real wealth through property investing. I was told about the out of state zone where the property was being sourced. Why it was suitable, how it would be serviceable and make positive gains and the urgency of getting in.
    I was assured their research was specialised and they only took on selected clients that don’t over question the presented properties and trust in what’s presented. I was told against viewing the property, that this isn't an emotional purchase, it's an investment and to rely on the group who have done there thorough research.
    I mentioned my goal of acquiring a property portfolio while working and not yet married.
    The meet in my opinion, looking back (after purchasing the properties) was sales coercive, misleading and deceptive. I was told to put down a holding deposit for the consultancy fee, if I didn’t get approval they refund me.
    I was to sign page 1, page 2, the terms and conditions was only referred to be read after I made the holding payment. In the bottom left hand side in tiny print is point, 12 which states the agent doesn’t make guarantees and the buyer must rely on their own inspections. Very contradictory to what I have described above.
    I paid the remainder of the consultancy fee which was quite expensive however I didn’t know at the time what a suitable fee was for this service was and had trusted what was being presented.
    I was emailed property specifications which I was anticipating would look like the Face book examples on the group’s web page. In comparison it was a poorer looking property. I was encouraged to choose it, or approval period would quickly go.
    Only one other property was sent prior however this was no longer available.
    The property condition on the inspection report was fair.
    There were big trees blocking the front of the property which needed to be cut down. A negotiation was made only half way with the selling agent for tree removal cost.
    This would cost me a couple of thousand dollars on top of the purchase price and the consultancy fee of $11,900. The tree removal was only removed at the stumps when I asked one of the staff why they weren't they removed by the roots, he said the stumps were poisoned and this is considered removal.
    I found out later through the real estate property manager, leaving it at the stumps was a potential public liability issue due to kids tenants and the, potential of tripping over . I had to pay over $ 4,000 of my own money more to remove it.
    6 months into buying the property, the bank’s lending rules were changing and because I wanted to obtain a property portfolio while I could, I asked to be found at 2nd property.
    I was told of a 2nd property by the group next door that had become available. I was told by the group this would be a potential zoning opportunity due to the combined land size, opportunity for 3 townhouses and granny flats to be built.
    I was told this would be a fantastic future wealth opportunity as the area for the properties was undergoing a strong growth. I paid another consultancy fee and chose it for mainly for the zoning reason.
    I found out later while speaking to many professionals in the industry, other buyers agents, local real estate’s agents, and local council and given detailed research, the chosen area by the group is not a boom area that was spruiked to me. There are many variables affecting the current and future Growth of the Logan central and neighbouring suburbs.
    Highways enclose the sourced area and the other suburbs over the other side, Mackenzie and spring wood have a nicer demographic.
    New developments known by the local council since 2011 to be built soon close to Logan and its neighbouring suburbs will very likely affect future appeal and population growth.
    Other buying agents and selling agents have mentioned to me the extent new developments can affect pre-existing suburbs in south east Queensland area, for example the starting of the new suburb Springfield Lakes.
    I also found out through the council and town planner, the zoning opportunity I chose the property for was not an option, it wasn’t in the zoning area, was under the land size and away from sewage requirements
    I travelled to see the properties, from what I saw the street side where properties were, were in a derelict state. I also could see with my eyes the properties needed renovation to make it desirable long-term.
    I got valuations done on the properties. I found out then that other properties in the area are used for valuations which were renovated.
    I only got a 1 or 2K more than my purchase price. I didn’t have enough to renovate. I could only use money from my Sydney property. However since I already used equity to pay for these last two properties I wasn't in the position to take out more.
    When I look back I remember when querying to the group about the area and growth I was told often Logan would grow like Mount Druitt or Redfern. South East Queensland however after the long term research, I have collected is not a sprawling city like Sydney and is affected by many more variables as I mentioned earlier, that can strongly change the area growth
    The zoning also I confirmed can only be relooked at when council makes new laws.
    I found out from the selling agent at the time he did mention potential zoning to the group client at the purchasing stage however it was the group’s responsibility to check if this was accurate due the fee I paid for their service. I thought as a repeated client now, my customer relationship would of been valued.
    Overall my experience with the group in my opinion has been really unsatisfactory.
    The service was substandard, the knowledge was lacking compared to the investigation I have done in the area.
    I’m stuck with properties that weren’t what I expected and paid for. I doubt any sizable future property growth will happen. I have been told by various industry professionals (that won’t make any monetary gain from me) to sell the two properties.
    I am experiencing constant headaches with upkeep. One tenant stopped paying rent and by court order was forced to leave and I had to claim 16 weeks unpaid rent by the insurer.
    Ongoing maintenance issues come up. It is very hard to find maintenance, repair people for small matters that are available. When I try to find someone reasonable to help me budget is near impossible.
    The overheads for insurance and other safety measures i.e. home alarms required for Queensland is high and not as competitive as Sydney.
    I have recently got a renovation quote which will be in the excess of 20K for each property.
    I look back and wonder why my budget and renovating costs weren’t factored in.
    I have found out through the selling agents that no negotiations were made to lower the properties.
    The consultancy fee for the value in my opinion was not worth it. I paid $13,900 for the 2nd property along with the $11,900.00 for the 1st property.
    I have been told by other professionals in the industry, it would only cost a few thousand dollars for the service I received from the group.
    I am very disappointed and am stuck with the risk the properties not being tenanted again, renovation costs and rising interest rates. One of the properties the tenants moved away just before Christmas, the rent had to be reduced and am still trying to find someone.
    The risk levels of my loans are too high and in the event of rising interest rates I might run the risk of forfeiting the properties all while waiting for a little equity to cover the sale costs.
    I wish I had the time to do this myself as I could of done a far better job, I know this for next time. However I was relying on the group to provide me this service that I paid a high sum for.
     
  16. kierank

    kierank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Jan, 2016
    Posts:
    1,348
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Until @Ben Moorhouse comes back and posts a confirmation that all is settled, then I think I know which option I am leaning towards.

    If it turns out to be the second option (I have no idea), then I wouldn't think it will do their reputation any good.
     
    RetireRich101 and TMNT like this.
  17. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    1,534
    Location:
    Melbourne
    me personally, when a company signs up to post, unless there is a second side to the story or set the story straight ,or always , it always makes them look bad
     
    kierank likes this.
  18. silverman47

    silverman47 Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    15
    Location:
    Sydney
    How do you suggest they respond? Or do you suggest they just accept having their brand trashed on an anonymous forum? Businesses put in a lot of money into building brands. I believe it is within their rights to protect it. if they have acted illegally, this is a different case.
     
  19. BeefEater

    BeefEater Member

    Joined:
    9th Feb, 2016
    Posts:
    22
    Location:
    Sydney & Country NSW
    Got this email the other day. They're now offering $9k kickback for referral of a new client.

    Zaki Email.png
     
  20. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    2nd Sep, 2015
    Posts:
    1,471
    Location:
    melbourne
    Just counter the arguments with facts. For e.g. if the individual was told against viewing the property, Just say no it is not company policy period and an incorrect statement. (clients are never advised to do this)

    Rather than having a one liner saying hey - we are happy to settle the matter. A lot of businesses (much larger than buyers agency from restaurants, corporates. building companies etc) get bad reviews all the time. Also, there should be some level of warranty on services provided based on the specification. Having accurate and correct representations (whether verbal or written) are important as all individuals consume time and dollars in property purchases.