Donald Trump for President..

Discussion in 'Politics' started by willair, 23rd Jul, 2015.

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  1. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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  2. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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  3. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    It was one thing to not allow in any new people. But to ban people from entering the country who had previously been allowed in, a number of them permanent residents, was not a good thing.

    I think the reason that a number of the 109 who were let in was because of court orders decreeing that the order was unconstitutional.

    In addition to those, there are a great many people who have been living in the US who are not going to be allowed back in. Those 109 were only the people who were flying or who had just landed. It's not much of a defence to say that "only" xx people remain detained.

    It's interesting to see the countries which were not included in the ban.

    The ban mentions the threat which came from 9/11. However, the majority of those were Saudis, a number were from Egypt.

    Egypt itself has a "reconsider the need to travel" advisory; northern Sinai is under ISIS control.

    We had plans to travel to Egypt, it is a place where my wife has always dreamed of travelling, and where my daughter travelled last year. But now it is too dangerous to travel. Bans against Muslims in the US will further inflame anti western feeling, and make the whole Middle East situation more volatile.

    There are big terrorist problems in Turkey and Pakistan.

    None of these countries had bans applied.

    These are countries where Trump does business.
     
  4. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    It's going to get interesting for people from Australia also to get a entry visa if they have any serious convictions or served a custodial sentence within Australia..
     
  5. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: 30th Jan, 2017
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  6. Casteller

    Casteller Well-Known Member

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    No they didn't omit it, I read this on CNN. The list formed under Obama would have also been influenced by financial interests, and it is just an exemption from the visa waiver scheme so dual citizens (or visitors to those countries...!) have to apply for a visa, nothing as biased and draconian as Trumps stupid move which will only increase the threat of terrorism. Even Australia used to be not eligible for the visa waiver scheme, most countries are not eligible. Actually lucky I didnt try to go to US since I visited one of the 7 countries on holiday so that stamp would have blocked me at US immigration.

    Anyone who has British Citizenship can sign this UK Gov petition to cancel Trumps state visit, I signed it. Over 900K votes in 24 hours ! They have to debate it in parliament if it goes over 100K.

    Petition: Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom.
     
  7. balwoges

    balwoges Well-Known Member

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    What bothers me is if someone decides to assassinate Trump, the repercussions would be terrifying, not just for the US but the world ...
     
  8. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    No it wasn't omitted- as Casteller stated, it was on CNN, but I only found it much later. But it wasn't prominent anywhere. It does explain some things.

    But it hasn't been sold very well at all.

    Rudi Giuliani didn't know about it. On Fox News, when he was explaining how he changed a "Muslim Ban" to a "Danger ban" for Trump, Said that Saudi Arabia has undergone a lot of change, but he 'expressed concerns about Pakistan's omission from Trump's order. "I would have to know more about it," he said. "It troubles me a little bit like it troubles you." '

    And the acting US ambassador to Australia didn't know either. 'Asked why countries such as Pakistan and Afghanistan were not included on the travel ban list, Mr Carouso said: "I wish I knew."'
     
  9. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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  10. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    But he is continuing in the same vein. Trump's fear and division begets fear and division
     
  11. Francesco

    Francesco Well-Known Member

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    Trudeau just twittered that Canada has an indiscriminate refugee resettlement policy. He is careful not to refer to his neighbour or make any comparison with the US. After all the US is more diverse than Canada:

    Marni Soupcoff: Canada talks the diversity talk, but the U.S. walks the diversity walk

    In 2016, Trudeau was comparing leadership styles, populist v the established politically correct globalist approach, which was facing electoral backlash around the globe. Obviously, it was also a dig at Trump who was opposing the HRC and Obama camp and vowing to 'drain the swamp'.

    Post US election, it is a reasonable presumption that diplomats and politicians will respect the POTUS in 2017, whereas in 2016 they were more dismissive.

    If Trudeau is indeed so big hearted on accepting refugees Turnbull (Peter Dutton take note) should enlist his help to resettle any refugee that Trump will reject.
     
  12. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    From the stories I've heard - the majority weren't allowed onto their flights to even get to the USA - some were even escorted off, after boarding, by security officials as if they were criminals.

    These figures (as Geoff pointed out) would only be those who were in transit at the time the order was signed.

    And, just because it appears to be a small number affect at that one point it time, still doesn't make it right. The mere fact that three airlines have to change their rosters so staff from those countries don't fly to the USA is pretty a pretty significant affect. I also know a few Aussie's who have had to cancel their business travel plans due to the risk of being dual citizens.
     
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  13. Casteller

    Casteller Well-Known Member

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    A foxnews poll hmmmm.. Anyway it is true a lot of US Americans tend to be quite paranoid and suspicious of the outside world so could be a real poll. Trump fed on these irrational fears, helped him win.

    I worked there for a while and had to leave the country every 3 months to renew my short term visa. Going to Canada didn't work, so usually I went back to Australia or the Caribbean, but once I booked a ticket to Morocco and the project team (all US citizens) freaked out, thought I was going to die, the boss tried to talk me out of it (Morocco has a murder rate about the same as Australia..)
     
  14. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    Wow. I can't believe how he's pushing for power and getting rid of anybody who stands in his way.

    Most worrying is the downgrading of the top military and intelligence personnel as permanent members of the National Security Council, and the permanent appointment of Steve Bannon as a permanent member. The people who know the most about national security will only be allowed to comment when asked.

    A number of the top levels in the state department have gone, either been asked to leave or who have left not wanting to serve Trump. This was before a petition from the state department signed by 900 state department members protesting the immigration ban- press secretary Spicer has said they should either get with the program or go.

    The "Muslim" ban was poorly executed, with lots of problems caused by inadequate execution. But the acting attorney general was dismissed for refusing to follow the orders which she believed were unlawful. Sure, she was only due to serve another week or so... but there seems to be a pattern emerging. I don't see this ban as being the main issue- it appears to be more of a smokescreen.

    Many scientists will have to have reports vetted by the White House before release. This is ominous. They are no longer allowed to say things on social media.

    While the repeal of Obamacare was a central campaign promise, I can't see that a replacement will be ready for quite a long time. Surely it would have been better to have waited for a replacement to be in place before getting rid of the old. I can see the big possibility that millions who were insured will not be for as period of time, until the replacement gets put in.
     
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  15. GalacticExplorer

    GalacticExplorer Well-Known Member

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    We are witnessing America becoming great again. Serious.

    How many refugees did those rich gulf states take in? Zero. And they are sunni muslim arabs with a GDP per capita greater than Australia.

    What was their excuse? "Security reasons." Of course when Westerners say it, its heartless, cruel, racist, xenophobic and whatever else labels that like to get thrown around.

    Funny, isn't?
     
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  16. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8175924

    They don't count Syrians as refugees even though they resettle them. According to
    UNHCR refugee counts the Syrians don't count as refugees even though there's hundreds of thousands of them.
     
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  17. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    Btw, my point was not whether it was a good thing to exclude refugees or people from some Muslim countries. The big problem with that has been the incredibly poor implementation, resulting in several backdowns. But my point was much more the apparent disarray of the new administration, and the power Trump is assuming over many aspects.

    The treatment of the Australian prime minister was appalling coming from the president of the US. How does he treat enemies when he treats close allies so badly? He almost threatened to send troops into Mexico. Hardly what one would call diplomacy.
     
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  18. wategos

    wategos Well-Known Member

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    No, because its not true.
    All Gulf states have accepted hundreds of thousands of refugees, it is just that once they are there they are often no longer classified as refugees and are not part of the UNHCR statistics. They have been accepted as normal immigrants. In addition these states have donated over 2 billion dollars to help.
    Refugees of the Syrian Civil War - Wikipedia
    Saudi Arabia 500,000
    United Arab Emirates 242,000
    Kuwait 155,000
    Turkey 2.7M, Lebanon 1.5M, Jordan 1.25M

    Millions of refugees are around the Middle East and Europe, and trump wont even take a few thousand and he hypes up non existent threats to his ignorant base. What a disgusting piece of crap he is.

    We are witnessing US America going down the gurgler after they elected a fascist ignorant fool into the white house. Hopefully their checks are balances will hold the country together until he is gone but these are under threat also. Expect the next attacks to be towards media organisations and then the electoral process itself.
     
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  19. random

    random Well-Known Member

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    Turnbulls a *****. Fancy expecting a country in recession with already 340million , and us of 25 and all this space, to take our scraps.
    What a d@ckhead.
    Glad Trump told him what he thought , fool deserved it.

    A friend lives in the states and no body can believe Australia expected them to take ours, trump was one of the polite ones.
    It's all over the tonight shows and everything , all having a great old laugh at the idiocy of it.
     
    Last edited: 3rd Feb, 2017
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  20. Francesco

    Francesco Well-Known Member

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    Of course you know that Australia cannot allow the people smugglers to know that smuggled asylum seekers by boat eventually end up in Australia. The message to them is that no matter what they cannot be settled in Australia by that way.

    Trump and Dutton should ask Justin Trudeau nicely to help out and take those that Trump might refuse.