Do Americans understand how much trouble they’re in?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Lizzie, 3rd Jun, 2019.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    9th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    9,618
    Location:
    Planet A
    Another example of the decay of democracy in the US - when the AG is held in contempt of obstructing the very system he's supposed to be working for - which amounts to a serious constitutional crisis within government:

    House sets vote to hold Barr in contempt of Congress
     
  2. inertia

    inertia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,617
    Location:
    Newcastle, NSW
    I actually dont have a problem with this. Having some exposure to security stuff through IT, as the guy on the coal face, you dont just open the doors because some big wig is knocking on it. If they want access, they need to go through the chain of command. The cops on the ground do not have the authority to permit access without the correct procedures completed.

    Sure, there should be procedures there to permit audits etc, but rocking up and putting pressure on the cop is just a political stunt.

    Cheers,
    Inertia.
     
  3. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    15th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    11,654
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Official requests for a tour of the facility were ignored. So they tried to follow procedures; this happened only after those procedures didn't work. Oversight should have been allowed, in some way. The senator, if not allowed immediately, should have been given an alternate way of entering at a later date.

    This story is a year old. Shortly afterward, a federal judge ordered that the families be reunited. However, no procedure had been put in place to allow this to take place, so many could not be reunited. It was later found that there were many more separations than had been previously reported.
    Trump administration family separation policy - Wikipedia

    I'm not sure that oversight of asylum seekers in Nauru us much better.
     
    Lizzie likes this.
  4. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    15th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    11,654
    Location:
    Newcastle
  5. Archaon

    Archaon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Mar, 2017
    Posts:
    1,896
    Location:
    Newcastle
    All the bolded statements quoted above are NOT the reason that illegal immigrants are detained, they are detained at the border because they are awaiting processing to deem whether they are genuine refugees...
    They have also entered the country illegally, thus contravening American law and are therefore criminals until deemed otherwise.

    The photos used to claim Trump is separating children from their parents and locking them in cages was taken during the Obama administration.

    The reason people believe that democracy is failing is because of the echo-chamber that is leftist mainstream media.
     
    MTR likes this.
  6. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    15th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    11,654
    Location:
    Newcastle
    That photo was from 2014. It was a young person who crossed the border alone - not treated humanely, but not separated from parents. The policy of separating children from parents was announced in April 2018, but had started a year earlier, and was only stopped by court order.

    A person seeking asylum is not an illegal. They are abiding by international laws.
    Is it legal to cross the U.S. border to seek asylum?

    To my knowledge, the thousands of asylum seekers arriving in Australia by air are treated legally and humanely, and not separated or deported before their asylum claims are validated.

    I believe that democracy is being curbed in the US, but it has been an ongoing process which started well before Trump (with things like voter disenfranchisement and gerrymandering), but which has continued stronger, as evidenced by the power struggle between the president and Congress. More changes are being enacted by presidential decree - Obama also did this to a smaller degree when he had a hostile Congress; other presidents have done similar. The struggle to bypass checks and balances built into the constitution could lead to an impotent Congress.
     
    Lizzie likes this.
  7. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,786
    Location:
    My World
  8. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    15th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    11,654
    Location:
    Newcastle
    To clarify. Asylum seekers are legal. Illegal immigrants should be treated appropriately, fairly and with humanity. If that means deportation, then so be it. Separating families is not humane, especially when many families were not able to be reunited. Not allowing oversight (as mentioned in the opening post) gives an appearance of having something to hide.

    From the article quoted:
    "Obama was faced with a genuine increase in children and families coming to the US; Trump just decided that typical numbers were unacceptable".
     
    Lizzie likes this.
  9. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    9th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    9,618
    Location:
    Planet A
    Please explain how this is humane: Immigrant toddlers ordered to appear in court alone

    No echo chambers - sorry to burst your bubble - open minds and discussion of concepts that affect future direction, backed by current day proven facts
     
    wylie likes this.
  10. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,495
    Location:
    Melbourne
    @Lizzie have you read The Assault on Reason by Al Gore? I only got half way through, but it's an interesting insight from "inside" so to speak as to how money and manipulation shape the American system. It was written in 2007, a lot of the things falling in to place now with regard to bypassing the constitutional checks and balances started when Bush Jnr worked his way into the top spot.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 6th Jun, 2019
    Lizzie likes this.
  11. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    9th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    9,618
    Location:
    Planet A
    Thanks for the suggestion - need something to add to the reading list
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 6th Jun, 2019
  12. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    15th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    11,654
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Interesting, thanks. Though my to-read list is already longer than my available lifetime hours.

    Some interesting reviews on Goodreads
    The Assault on Reason by Al Gore

    Many reviews were behind paywalls, of course, revealing just a tantalising opening paragraph. One of the few publically available is from NYTimes
    The Assault on Reason - Al Gore - Book - Review
    It's on Kindle. Though Amazon.com appears to only show the few top reviews of its own choosing. I don't know how to access the other 380 reviews mentioned.
    https://www.amazon.com.au/Assault-Reason-Information-Ecosystem-Print-ebook/dp/B06XX724Z6
     
  13. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,786
    Location:
    My World
    Yes, but same outcome..... regardless
     
  14. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    15th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    11,654
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Not the same outcome. Obama did not separate families. This is not just a technicality. This is the headline of the article you quoted, and one of the main points under discussion in this thread.

    Trump would still be separating families if the courts hadn't stopped him. Enforcement of his policies meant that many families weren't even able to be reunited.

    Humanity appears to be taking a back seat.
     
    wategos, wylie and Lizzie like this.
  15. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

    Joined:
    3rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    12,394
    Location:
    Sydney

Buy Property Interstate WITHOUT Dropping $15k On Buyers Agents Each Time! Helping People Achieve PASSIVE INCOME Using Our Unique Data-Driven System, So You Can Confidently Buy Top 5% Growth & Cashflow Property, Anywhere In Australia

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.