Disruptive tenant - suggestions?

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by inertia, 1st Jul, 2020.

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  1. inertia

    inertia Well-Known Member

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    Howdy all,

    First up, I have a property manager, who I have had since owning the property, and I have always been happy with their service. I am just casting the net a bit wider for opinions, suggestions, and, observations, etc. I have already asked the PM what their advice is, and await their response.

    The scenario I have is a pair of dual occupancy houses next to each other. I have 1 tenant who has been there long term - longer than I have owned it, and the other 3 tenancies have rolled over occasionally, with no problem finding replacement tenants.

    I had a tenant advise that someone tried to break in to their house and the door could no longer be secured. I said fine, send someone to repair it. There was 1 tiny breakdown in communication here where the PM thought I said I would get it fixed, but I had actually advised them to proceed to have it fixed. Minor issue, first time this has ever happened with this real estate, no biggy. When the tenant subsequently went back to the RE demanding someone go straight out and fix it, it got sorted. Let's call this tenant "A".

    I just got the update that the lock was fixed, no damage to the door, and it is all fine now, however... another tenant's daughter (call this tenant B and his daughter) has advised that tenant A has been behaving erratically and aggressively towards her - "she is dangerous and I don't feel comfortable coming over to dad's house any more". She has been doing the cleaning for him, and providing assistance. Tenant A stormed in to the unit of tenant B while his daughter and boyfriend were cleaning, had a rant, demanded to know who they were (despite the daughter having visited regularly for 2+ years), and for them to leave and stop touching things. The daughter described tenant A as "completely drugged out" and was verbally abusive.

    Personally at that point, I feel the daughter should have called the police, but she felt that would escalate the situation, and she felt it best to leave. I'm surprised by that, as it means she left her dad there alone.

    The daughter of tenant B also observed tenant A the previous week abusing traffic and yelling out to people when no one was around. The daughter also advised of some weird behaviour - deconstructing a brick pillar and placing the bricks on the driveway outside tenant Bs door.

    This is a bit more serious than a noisy neighbours scenario, and is further complicated in that I dont want to lose 3 tenants over the behaviour of 1 tenant.

    Physical inspections had been suspended during iso, and I have asked if they have resumed. I have asked what the PM advises, so we will see what they come back with.

    Happy to receive any thought, suggestions, observations!

    Cheers,
    Inertia.
     
  2. Phoenix Pete

    Phoenix Pete Well-Known Member

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    Pretty simple solution. Tenant 'A' needs to leave, and as quickly as possible.

    I reckon Tenant 'A' tried to break into her premises and spun the story that someone tried to break in, to avoid paying the repair costs herself.

    Did Tenant 'A' report the 'attempted break-in' to police?
     
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  3. inertia

    inertia Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I don't know if they reported it to police. In future, if I get a request for a lock repair, I'll be asking for a copy of the police report if they want me to pay for it.

    cheers,
    Inertia.
     
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  4. Phoenix Pete

    Phoenix Pete Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind that sometimes a tenant will report that a lock is not working and there is no visual sign of tampering (attempted break in etc). It could be a case of the internals of the lock failing, a case of lubricant required and the like. Locks can fail over time due to wear and tear.
     
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  5. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    I wonder if you can breach Tenant A for not allowing "quiet enjoyment" expectations of the other three tenants.

    Police need to be called when she's ranting and shouting at traffic. Obviously the tenant who observes this needs to make the call. You cannot do it remotely or after the fact.

    Tenant A needs to go.

    We had a dodgy tenant and neighbours would call me. They knew me and I was self managing. At that time, they wouldn't call the police themselves, but I believe now the police don't let on who called (though there is a risk the problem tenant will assume who called). So, we were stuck with a problem for the neighbours, but none of them would make the call to the police. It made things very difficult.
     
  6. inertia

    inertia Well-Known Member

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    they did advise it was due to a break in, not just a failure. I don't know if there was any evidence of alleged break in. I thought nothing of it at the time, and just wanted the issue resolved for the tenant.
     
  7. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    Agreed! Tenant A needs to go.
     
  8. Phoenix Pete

    Phoenix Pete Well-Known Member

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    My bad. By 'lock repair' I thought you implied 'any lock' repair.

    On a brighter note, it looks pretty obvious by the responses that 'Tenant A' needs to go.
     
  9. Rugrat

    Rugrat Well-Known Member

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    Our units had a tenant like this prior to us taking ownership. Had been a nusiance to all the neighbours (my MIL being one of them) for years, along with hurling abuse at any random person walking past - which was a lot of parents and children regularly, seeing as it is near a school. She was a really nasty vile abusive peice of work. We insisted on vacant possession of her unit before settlement, because there was no way we were going to put up with that nonsense. Cops has been called in the past multiple times, complaints put into the realestate and council, etc. Yet the old owner continued to let her stay. Not sure if he felt sorry for her (she was an old woman) or if he was just to lazy to move her on seeing as it didn't actually impact him.
    Still see her around the shops occaisionally, abusing the workers and general public.

    Definitely move them on. Tenants like that don't improve, and will escalate if given the oppertunity.
     
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  10. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    Surely the first step is to get the Property Manager to talk to Tenant A and Tenent B about the claims instead of assuming we know what really happened.

    I would also be asking tenant B’s daughter for proof. I assume she has videoed these goings on? Or at least taken a photo or two.

    The behaviour doesn’t really sound dangerous - and you only have the daughter of Genentech B’s account. What does tenant B say?

    And finally, if Tenant B is concerned about his safety - or the welfare of Tenant A - I think he should be calling the police for any disturbance.

    Local community police should be able to assess if there is a mental health issue (though there is a risk they will shoot first and ask questions later going by recent events).
     
    Last edited: 1st Jul, 2020
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  11. Ted Varrick

    Ted Varrick Well-Known Member

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    Assuming the info provided is correct, Tenant A seems to be pissing off other neighbours, and taking into account @Joynz 's rigorous and time consuming investigative assessments, without medical issues being the cause, perhaps it is time to reconsider whether or not a relocation recommendation is in order.

    @datto might be looking for some extra prospects, although, on balance, a Behave or Go Forth And Multiply notice might be in order.
     
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  12. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    Actually, tenant A is only pissing off tenant B’s daughter - who doesn’t live there.
     
  13. datto

    datto Well-Known Member

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    Look. Mt Druitt is full of these tenant A types and worse.

    We call them fruit loop in the midst lol.

    You'll find that the display of deep seeded paranoia has a territorial aspect to it that extends to the PM's office and shopping centre. Abuse can be hurled to all and sundry along that strip. Gawd help anyone living next door.

    And that's why she 's the longest surviving tenant in the complex while the other 3 properties have had a steady turn over. I'd say someone around there has had a gut full of tenant A and put their boot in her door and luckily not her face.

    And if the PM doesn't know about tenant A's mischievous behaviour then I will go to my neighbour's house and build a brick pier in their driveway lol. Hmmm might do that anyway. After cutting their grass lol.
     
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  14. Paul@PFI

    [email protected] Tax Accounting + SMSF Business Plus Member

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    Have a chat to B to understand their views about B and behaviours. Daughter may have quite well supported concerns for nutter behaviour but it could also be less physical risk or a major one coming so ignoring it isnt a good idea. That said punting a tenant with mental health issues may be less a strategy than ensuring they are getting health and welfare support. They may be "off meds" and need steering back and with some patient calm discussion you may be able to help find who that is. Some perfectly normal people remain normal only with their meds. People with mental health isssues generally know they have issues (unless its gone too far) and with a "i have noticed you dont seem well can I help" approach rather than the fat guys in blue with battons and guns it may help. I would be calling the ambos well before cops. Ambos are angels
     
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  15. Tom Rivera

    Tom Rivera Property Manager Business Member

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    Have you spoken to the other tenants or neighbours?

    We wont act on neighbour complaints without corroborating testimony because in 90% of cases it's some sort of dispute between two parties and the complaintant is embellishing their story to get a result. "There's two sides to a story, and then there's the truth".

    Great example- I had a poor poor old lady harrass me about my terrible abusive tenants a couple of years back. I was very sympathetic, got Police involved and spoke to my tenants to find out what happened (left her identity anonymous).
    It ended up that this lady had been harrassing MY tenants, and had subsequently copped a mouthful of abuse from them after a few drinks on a Saturday night...!
    I asked for her to put me in touch with the neighbours, who would surely be experiencing the same behaviour she described, so she started have her family and carers call pretending to be the neighbours. When I spoke to the actual neighbours, it turns out she's done this to people for years. I called and fronted her over it, she stopped being an *******, and my tenants have lived happily ever since.
     
  16. inertia

    inertia Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the replies all.

    I will have the agent advise the daughter to definitely call emergency services for assistance in any future instances of immediate harm or mental health concern.

    The agent has advised they are almost due for an inspection so I will get photos of the property through soon.

    I'll be sure to update with any progress!

    Cheers,
    Inertia.
     
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  17. Ted Varrick

    Ted Varrick Well-Known Member

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    @inertia , and it seems some of views here disagree with mine, and that's OK, but you are Tenant A's landlord, not their mother, and you also have Tenant B (and their guests) equally to consider.

    If you think that Tenant A is OK to break and enter Tenant B's property, because they are <insert whatever excuse(s)> and **** off your other tenants (or just the daughter, given @Joynz 's technically correct point) then fair enough, but if not, and you suspect that one of @datto 's described "fruit loops" might have escaped and taken residency in one of your premises, then maybe you should consider you own "Problem Ownership". ie. whether it's yours or not.

    If not, the answer is right there.
     
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  18. datto

    datto Well-Known Member

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    I think tenant A will sort herself out on her own. Look at what she's doing... walking into other people's premises, yells abuse at strangers and builds brick piers in a neighbour's driveway for crying out loud.

    Nah. Natural selection will eliminate her from the gene pool.
     
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  19. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    While true.....this may not be a quick solution. :D
     
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  20. datto

    datto Well-Known Member

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    If enough people complain then it wouldn't take long.

    She could already go for unlawful entry, AVO etc.