Dispute with neighbour (Boundary wall)

The boundary wall (brick) between my parent's house and the neighbour's house had collapsed.

Due to my parent's limited English I was doing the most of talking with the neighbour regarding the repair. The neighbour guy got a couple of quotes and told me that they would like to go with one who was available to do right away which happens to be his wife's business client.

At that stage all we agree was that he would update me with the quote. He did mention that the quote came around 10k. This included the boundary wall (shared cost) and some additional works on his side which he will pay.

Fast forward, I got a text message from the neighbour's wife saying that the work will start tomorrow. The following day my parents managed to speak to the supervising worker and learned that the material they are using is now sandstone and the budget is now 15k. By this stage we never received the copy of quote even though there was a mutual understanding that the neighbour guy would email me. This never happened.

I then approached the neighbour and told that this does not make sense to go from timber fence material to sandstone. 50% jump from the initial verbal quote. They said it was a engineer's recommendation to use sandstone since the existing footing can be used. The neighbour said out of the total cost he would pay the 50% which is for the additional sandstone wall on his property and we should split the boundary wall 50/50. I thought that sandstone material was way excessive. However I also thought 25% of 15k ($3750) wasn't too bad price for the material.

Fast Forward again. Last week I received a screen shot of the final quote from the neighbour guy and I have never felt so much rage. The total invoice was $23550.
I rang him right away and asked him how on earth it can jump from 15k to 23k +. I can't tell my parent's now it is not 15k but 23k. Now my parents will have to pay $5887 instead of $3750. We were never informed of this and if we were we would never agree to go ahead with this quote.

Their reaction as of today is it is what is is. We gave you the total invoice and we need to pay 25% of the total invoice.

It was my fault not to ask the neighbour to show me the quote when I received the text saying the work will start tomorrow. The most annoying thing is they knew exactly how much it will cost even well before the work began but never emailed us the quote. All I was told that it will be around 15k and we would be responsible for 25% of 15k. This just doesn't make sense.

They use a part of their house for business so they can probably claim some of their cost as a business expense. The arrangement is that they will pay the total cost and we pay them our share. The final invoice from the builder is a hand written and not itemised.

Is there any member who had similar experience? or any advice on how to handle this matter would be appreciated. At this stage our stance is we are willing to pay for the 25% of 15k which was verbal quote from the neighbour.

Cheers

 

have a look at the dividing fences act for starters.

 

Thanks Terry_w.
I found some useful posts here to start with. One of the post I've seen mention about "Notice to Fence" which was never sent to our parent's and I was doing all the corresponding so this proper procedure was never followed. They are in Sydney by the way.
I will keep read so I can put myself in a better position when I talk to them again.

 

The answer will depend on where the property is located. Is the property in NSW?

Each State has it's own dividing fence legislation that will dictate what you are required to pay. If the correct procedures are not followed, you may not be liable to pay anything.

 

Thanks wylie.

Yes, I've read your post and this does clear my head a lot. Thanks. So things like this does happen a lot.

When we got a text from the neighbour about the work starting the next day I did not rejected or say not to it. Hope this is not considered as agreeing to the work they proposed.

Your situation in your past experience is what exactly we are hopping for. They never served us "Notice to Fence". They can probably argue that we did agree on the commencement of the work. However they won't be able to prove that they have notified us the quote 23k.

 

Hi, JDM.

My parents live in Sydney. I think the correct procedure form my understanding is that both parties talk first and if they agree on everything like the cost, exact location, materials and company ect...they don't need to serve the "Notice to Fence"

If there is a dispute then Notice to Fence has to be served. Regardless if they want us to contribute to the cost they are required to notify us anyway.

I sat this from VIC legal advice site but hope we don't have to pay more than what we need to.

"For a standard ‘sufficient dividing fence’ it’s generally 50/50. If either of you want a higher standard one, like a taller fence or one made of more expensive materials, and both agree to this, then the party wanting this usually pays the extra cost. You can also agree to split it.

Here’s a typical example:

The fence you want costs $2,000 but your neighbour wants the $1,500 one. Your neighbour pays $750 and you pay $1,250."

 

If the property is located in Sydney then this will be the relevant legislation: NSW Legislation. Sections 9, 11 and 12 will be especially relevant for you.

Ignore anything that is not NSW based as each State is different (albeit some have similarities).

 

Thanks JDM.

Just read the section 9 and I am a bit concerned. It sounds like if the neighbour argues that is was urgent and was impractical to serve a notice they can carry out the work regardless of the cost and without the agreement from our side. We have no option but be liable to pay half of the cost. Is that right?

Or would they need to prove that it was impractical to serve the notice to our parents who live next door?

 

Why was it urgent? In danger of falling over? Needed it finished before the BBQ on the weekend? Contractor was available?

Why are you paying for sandstone when you agreed on brick? Pay their share of the original quote.

 

Also difficult for them to argue it was impractical to serve the notice - your parents live there as PPOR and neighbour also had your direct number...

 

I can't hack these individuals who like to take advantage.

A neighbour in Mt Druitt still owes me over $500 for a colourbond boundary fence.

When I asked him for the money he put the heavy on me and claimed that the white ants from my front fence have damaged his kitchen.

Anyway one day, with a shovel, I flung a termite nest at his kitchen window as he was standing there drinking a glass of water.

Now, every time I visit my IP I have to double check that he's not home.

 

Thanks everyone again. Scott No Mates, d_walsh, datto.

I finally had a chat with the neighbor guy and it did not go down well...I told him that we will pay 25% of 10k (50% is additional work on his saide and the rest of 50% is shared wall.)
For about 9 mins phone conversation he was busy to blame us for negligence that we did not do anything about the crack.

In fact both parties did talk about replacing the wall even before it was collapsed more than a couple of time. It was not like we are rejecting to the idea. We are happy to share the cost but not for the sandstone. It is not relevant but once he had an issue with a dangerous looking gum tree on our parents backyard and we paid for a report which says that it is not heath but no need to cut down. We even showed it to him. Assuming our parents as a negligence neighbor is not right.

He was also saying we knew about how much it would cost when we only got the copy of quote when I ask him the direct number for the company. By that time the wall was all done.

My parents lived in their house for 11 years and always had a good relationship with everyone and this one control freak. Sorry guys I am just venting the frustration here. I wish I just take datto's approach LOL but I am not the one living there and don't want to stress my parents who are in their 70's. Now they are even saying they are okay to pay 25% of 15k if the guy want to settle it before it goes any further. I am still frustrated about this rude freak.

I had a chat with a friend who did a law degree and working for a gov agency ( he is not lawyer though) he think we are in a better position than the neighbor but just wondering what should I prepare if this goes to a local tribunal or court? I guess talking to a lawyer first?

 

I wouldn’t spend money on a lawyer unless your neighbour actually takes legal steps. As with most cases, the other side’s first response is usually anger and throw up every threat or legal jargon they know of to try and achieve the outcome they want.

It will also likely to cost your neighbour more out of pocket to pursue further.

If you want to be prepared just in case, make file notes of all your conversations (dates, times, person\phone call, what was discussed, as detailed as possible), collate text messages, quotes you received & prepare a timeline. This will be important if it comes down to a “he said, she said” argument because it will be his retrospective word against your record of events at the time they happened.

 

Whoever contracts with the builder will need to try to get money out of the other. This is when it could go to a tribunal so prepare evidence as d suggests.

 

Thanks d_walsh for the advice.

That is exactly what happened trying to give me a lesson on retaining wall and what was the major cause for the wall collapse. Even said he got a engineering report from the previous owner. I mean we were happy to share but not this way.

That is something I can definitely do in mean time. I even screenshot the phone call I made to Jim's Fencing back in May to prove that we did try what we could. We ere not negligence it at all.

Cheers

 

Thanks Terry_w.
I guess that is the best I could do atm.

 

I'd make a written offer to pay the lesser amount, as full and final payment if accepted.
Shows you are attempting to resolve the matter.

As your parent's are clearly retired they may be eligible for legal aid.
So if eventually the neighbor does initiate legal actions, just then hand the matter to legal aid.
You may very well find that they will have your parents a great result in no time.
It is a matter of waiting.......

 

I would imagine they will run to Solicitor Denis Denuto (As Seen on TV) and ask for advice on suing you (lol) and advice would given concerning the Neighbouring Fences Act. As they havent complied I cant imagine the advice is going to be good news but they could try on a claim for a 50% share hoping you cave.

People think its automatically 50% share of all fencing work and can be horridly disappointed when they learn that is the best case scenario. In many cases its $0. Guy I work with just found his yard disappearing into his neighbours yard. He is liable for the lot

Hope it works out OK

 

If he keeps changing the quote and then given you a massive bill since its only verbal and doesnt mean much so you didnt agree to the work