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Dial before you dig vs sewer diagram

Discussion in 'Development' started by Scott No Mates, 29th Aug, 2015.

  1. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Which takes precedence?

    I've looked at a block with an old house where DBYD shows there's a 225mm sewer line from the adjoining building cutting across the back (no biggie as it won't affect anything in the future and I will be developing to the max anyway).

    The property on the left side is a house (no 9) with a granny flat and a sewer connection shown (on DBYD). Nothing ringing bells yet...... DYBD is below, all nice.

    upload_2015-8-29_21-14-12.png



    I picked up a sewer diagram today (below) but it shows that the adjoining house's sewer connects midway into this block's sewer service. No work has been done to either house (other than the GF) in over 30 years. The sewer diagram hasn't been updated to remove the outback toilets etc.


    upload_2015-8-29_21-6-13.png


    The plan shows that next door's granny flat has its own sewer connection.

    Do I 'Oops' with a backhoe & cut it off at the boundary when I excavate for our footings?
    Will it be my problem or do I need to rely on both the DBYD & the sewer diagram for specifics?
    What are my rights in this case?
    There is no S88B creating an easement for the sewer (but as it is old is there existing use rights). Is it a case of this sewer doesn't need an easement?
    If I do bite the bullet and accept responsibility, I have to install a new sewerline in any case, should I build it next to the fenceline, create the S88B etc?


    upload_2015-8-29_21-6-13.png upload_2015-8-29_21-14-12.png
     
  2. DaveM

    DaveM Adelaide Buyers Agent & KFC Strategist Business Member

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    Since you have identified a reasonable chance of there being a sewer connection across the boundary, then a service location should be performed to mark locations of pipes.
     
  3. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    Your block if the one with the vent stack? And the neighbour connects into your sewer? Correct?

    No 9 has an illegal connection, that sewer should Connect in where the granny flat connects. It is no. 9's responsibility to rectify. Was the granny flat added later?
    Some one has stuffed up or taken a short cut somewhere. Perhaps the plumber took a short cut, but where no 9 has 4"then into 6", that should have run to the main but instead goes across to the neighbouring block into the 4" (smaller) not right.

    It's up to 9 to fix I'd say, and once you get the da underway they should be forced to act, if not sooner.

    It is not an easement but Sydney water has a right to access for maintenance and repairs under the Sydney water Act.

    And, I do like an "oops"but as you want to demolish and develop you should get the plumbing plans for your block and this shows the conundrum, so not ideal
     
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  4. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    As for precedence, the Sydney water plans are a lot more reliable! All (majority) MH's are GPS located now and big chunk of Mains have been CCTV'd so they know what's there.

    The plumbing plans are useful but more of a guide, especially like your one it's an old block hand drawn back in the day and have no measurements or locations other than the above ground io's and vents etc. the.visible is all you can work off and connect the dots to the main
     
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  5. Be Developer

    Be Developer Property Developer Business Member

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    Go with Sydney water plans...

    If still in doubt, get them to send you detailed info. They should have accurate asset information as @bob shovel said.

    That way even if you "oops" hit it..you got someone to blame.:)
     
  6. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    That's as good as you'll get from syd Water, they may have a few more details of the main but the mh is visible so that's all yo need, but that's it for the private sewer!

    And who ever does the work has the responsibly to obtain both plans so you'll be digging yourself a hole going the oops root
     
  7. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    From memory I had checked the junction ot the two sewer services about 10 years ago - looked like there was a pit but it was disused (I will get a plumber to double check for me).
     
  8. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    Get a plumber that has a camera and quickly camera the lines

    Might be worth a call to syd water tooo to see where everyone stands, they might be able to push things along
     
  9. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Thanks BS, great idea.
     
  10. Chilliblue

    Chilliblue Well-Known Member

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    Check the Sydney Water website and search under encroaching private service to confirm that you are legally permitted to cut the neighbours from the shared services. Also speak to their customer connection department.

    If there is shared service, and note that an easement is not required to cover this service, then disconnection may lead you to being sued and forced to pay damages.
     
  11. Geelong Cable Locations

    Geelong Cable Locations Member

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    Looks like you are all sorted with this now, I'll just add that I wouldn't be going the "opps' idea. I haven't dealt with Sydney Water, but I know down this way, all the water authorities are really good and easy to deal with and I can't see why they would be any different up there, so I'd just go in and tell them the truth about it all and see what they say.

    But before you go in definitely get a camera down the line and just double check it so that you have all your facts when you go in there.

    Good luck,

    Reagrds
    Ben
     
  12. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    Yes it could be a shared sewer @Scott No Mates but the 4" pipe down stream of the junction does indicate something funny going on. Worth asking syd water. ill have to find the wsa code and find the detail on shared sewer, but in this situation looks more like cutting corners.

    @spludgey can you shed any light?
     
  13. Gingin

    Gingin Well-Known Member

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    You can get a peg out report done, where they survey and sonar it for $600 odd dollars.

    If undertaking works on there asset, you will need permission. In nsw they are mostly private operators. All drawings will need to be stamped as approved.

    If you have a vent stack there are further requirements. Captain Google will provide access
     
  14. spludgey

    spludgey Well-Known Member

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    I know a lot of stuff, but this certainly falls outside my area of expertise, so, sorry no idea.
     
  15. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Likewise @spludgey - I'm usually full of it but have come short on this one.
     
  16. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    upload_2015-9-1_11-7-25.png
    For reference upload_2015-9-1_11-7-25.png
     
  17. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    give sydney water a call. i cant see any drawings to show what you have. the PCS or junction should be in each property and with yours number 9 had plenty of room to connect to the main running through. seems like a short cut to me

    or perhaps originally it was 2 houses on one title
     
  18. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Bob. It's a PIA. OFT have responsibility for plumbing nowadays and have advised that its an old connection. I will need to negotiate with next door (ie pay my plumber to put a new service to hook them up on their land or do a s88 create an easement for drainage down the fenceline to carry our sewer as well).

    Not a biggie - solve the problem & don't bury your head in the sand.

    Most problems disappear if you throw money at them ;)
     
    Last edited: 1st Sep, 2015
  19. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    Oft look after plumbing connections and verification etc but syd water might be interested to know the way they have connected.
    You should not have to pay as they are using your sewer connection
     
  20. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    You probably have the neighbors over a barrel. once you knock your place down and cut the sewer they'll have **** everywhere if they don't run a new line!