Debt recycling

Discussion in 'Accounting & Tax' started by mspaint, 27th Apr, 2022.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
  1. mspaint

    mspaint Member

    Joined:
    23rd Oct, 2020
    Posts:
    14
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Hi all, newbie in debt recycling here. Just wanna clarify the actual operation in order to achieve debt recycling.

    My situation
    Home loan non-deductible 800k
    Shares approx 410k

    Question: I'd like to split the 800k home loan to 390k non-deductible and 410k for investment purpose, since the shares have already bought, do I need to ...
    1. Liquidate all 410k shares
    2. Pay off 410k mortgage / or refinance only 390k home loan
    3. Apply for 410k top up/equity loan
    4. Buy back the same shares value at 410k (have price difference risk)

    Or I can just split the loan into 390k and 410k and declare that 410k is for investment purposes so that it can becomes tax deductible?

    To make it more complicated.. can the top up loan for investment in joint name but the actual investment is in single name? Can still have all interest deductible or only half of them due to the loan is joint name?

    Thanks
     
  2. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    41,985
    Location:
    Australia wide
    did u borrow to acquire the shares?
     
  3. mspaint

    mspaint Member

    Joined:
    23rd Oct, 2020
    Posts:
    14
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Unfortunately not as I just learnt this recently.
     
  4. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    41,985
    Location:
    Australia wide
    well the interest on the loan won't be deductible then as you probably realise.

    You could sell the shares and reborrow to buy them back but you need tax advice on whether the ATO will apply Part IVA to deny the deduction using the anti-avoidance provisions as this is a scheme with the sole or dominant purpose of claiming a deduction.
     
  5. mspaint

    mspaint Member

    Joined:
    23rd Oct, 2020
    Posts:
    14
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Oh thanks.

    So is it that I'd better use the fund to buy another kind of asset (e.g. IP) in order to claim the interest legitimately?
     
  6. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    41,985
    Location:
    Australia wide
    I cannot answer that. If you debt recycled to buy another asset you wouldn't have to worry about the tax issues with Part IVA though.
     
  7. David_SYD

    David_SYD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    17th Feb, 2020
    Posts:
    778
    Location:
    Sydney
    We’re considering starting debt recycling and having this managed by professionals for us.

    I’d be interested to hear from anybody who is currently actively pursuing the strategy. Cheers
     
  8. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

    Joined:
    14th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    10,650
    Location:
    Gold Coast (Australia Wide)
    What loan structure and lender do you have in place to enable the strategy ?

    ta
    rolf
     
  9. David_SYD

    David_SYD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    17th Feb, 2020
    Posts:
    778
    Location:
    Sydney
    None. I have been looking at your company Rolf.
     
  10. Lindsay_W

    Lindsay_W Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    5,065
    Location:
    QLD/Australia Wide
    Rolf's the man for active DR strategy
     
    Paddy Callaghan and David_SYD like this.
  11. David_SYD

    David_SYD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    17th Feb, 2020
    Posts:
    778
    Location:
    Sydney
    Just looking into this again.

    Our PPoR is currently fixed for 4 more years at 1.98%. Offset on IP is full and the residual is invested in shares.

    Given current interest rates, could it be counterproductive to break the fixed rate period on our PPoR and take on a new loan with a much higher interest rate?

    Thanks in advance all.
     
  12. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

    Joined:
    14th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    10,650
    Location:
    Gold Coast (Australia Wide)
    Some lenders will allow a partial break, ie split off 50 or whatever u will DCA into the market over period x.

    That way the non deductible debt remains on the low fixed rate, and the impact of higher rates on the investment portion is lessened due to tax deductions ( assumed)

    ta
    rolf
     
    David_SYD likes this.
  13. David_SYD

    David_SYD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    17th Feb, 2020
    Posts:
    778
    Location:
    Sydney
    Thanks Rolf. Assuming not ideal this way though?

    I’ll be back in touch with you guys next week.
     
  14. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    41,985
    Location:
    Australia wide
    If you can pay $x into a fixed loan, there would be a partial break cost - which would be nil or close to nil in your situation. You then have equity which you could borrow against under a new split
     
    David_SYD likes this.
  15. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

    Joined:
    14th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    10,650
    Location:
    Gold Coast (Australia Wide)
    sub optimal indeed, but may still be workable

    ta
    rolf
     
    David_SYD likes this.

Price Accounting provide investor + developer tax services world and Australia wide for your property and all tax issues. Contact Paul@PFI below for our new client pack and quoted pricing + client portal access. Trusts, Co and SMSF are our specialty.