Debt recycling

Discussion in 'Loans & Mortgage Brokers' started by purkulator, 24th Sep, 2021.

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  1. purkulator

    purkulator Well-Known Member

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    What features are required on the loan to allow for debt recycling?
    Say you have 2m loan and 500k cash
    You have a split P&I loan 1.5m fixed 500k variable
    You put 500k into the variable offset account then use it to invest in shares
    After 3 months you saved 20k from your salary and put it into the offset account
    Can you take that out and invest in shares by 'debt recycling'?
    On the other hand if you choose to not invest for a while and save up to 200k in the offset over time, can you withdraw that amount at any time and invest it and deduct the interest cost on it ?
     
  2. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    The only essential requirement really is redraw
     
  3. purkulator

    purkulator Well-Known Member

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    Do you have to have offset too? Or not always?
     
  4. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    It is not needed but you probably should have one
     
  5. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

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    from top down features to look for if you want to use an Active Debt recycle strategy - that is regularly invest in equities from recycled money.

    Master Limit - allows you to redraw any principal paid, during the Master Limit period, while still having the capacity to have the majority of the non deductible debt on low rate PI with the majority fixed. As far as I am aware, only AMP has that combo

    Limit Swap - allows one to have just 2 loans to do active debt recycling with, rather than regular split downs every 3 to 6 months using. Mac and BWA allow this, as do a couple of No Banks.AMPs version is even better for many on higher tax brackets since one can limit swap from OO PI to INV IO

    Capacity top split loans down......into smaller splits - most lenders will allow this, some have limitations on the number of loans - eg STG - max 4 splits - workable for some, dog for others

    Loans aint loans.

    ta
    rolf
     
  6. purkulator

    purkulator Well-Known Member

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    Wow that does limit down the options...realistically if you want to do this actively and ongoing AMP is the best option
     
  7. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

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    Yes and no

    Product and Feature wise the AMP set up is " the best"

    However there are some things that can be problematic

    Some are

    Vals............if u have a val thats 100 k higher from Active Debt Recycling Lender X than AMP......then often the extra gearing is worthwhile

    Fussy on cash out, up tp 100 k is ok, beyond that, unless one has been trading shares for a little while, is under the guidance of a planner or can obtain an accountants letter its near impossible to coax them to release more than 100 k per app.......

    If one has a lot of available and accesible equity lenders like Mac and BWA ( and ANZ and NAB) are a lot more flexible in this regard, and if one is a DIY recyclers without previous share experience they offer more value overall

    Servicing ...... Because the Master limit is effectively an IO loan for the entire facility, the loan is serviced over 25 or 20 vs 30 years ( AMP will allow ML up to 10 years). If one is tight on servicing, BWA is often a better fit, or even one of the non banks depending on LVR, Mac tends to have a low risk appetite so if your DTI is north of 6, they are harder on both cash out and sub 70 % lvr

    Once again, loans aint loans, and there is no "one fits" all

    ta
    rolf
     
  8. purkulator

    purkulator Well-Known Member

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    So as you mentioned above, when speaking to banks or mortgage brokers who may not be familiar with the debt recycling strategy so to speak but understands all the features of loans I should ask wherher their loans have one of the following: master limit, limit swap or capacity to split loans down. If they have any one of these features likely you can employ this strategy with the loan structure?
     
  9. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

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    I have an obvious commercial Bias.............that to me seems an odd way to go about what your are looking to do.

    Most Bankers wont have a clue about this stuff, its not their job.

    I can save you the work on the Master Limit question - its AMP or AMP

    Also most brokers dont know either, since they dont work in conjunction with a planner that can make this stuff work well for those that dont want to DIY - most brokers are "transactional" and

    Having said that, I know most brokers on this forum are not "transactionally " based and would have a reasonable to great knowledge of how to out this together

    ta
    rolf
     
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  10. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    If you want to debt recycle why on earth would you be speaking to people that don't understand it>
     
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  11. Lindsay_W

    Lindsay_W Well-Known Member

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    You've had responses from 2 blokes who do this stuff all the time and therefore have a very good grasp of the concept, why would you speak to anyone but them??
     
  12. purkulator

    purkulator Well-Known Member

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    So no point even asking..?
     
  13. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

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    Depends on what you are looking to achieve ?

    If its an education around lending structures to support an active debt recycle strategy id say no - it would mean you and your service provider would be blind to what is best for you.

    ta
    rolf
     
  14. purkulator

    purkulator Well-Known Member

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    As long as the structure is right, I can do the rest of the leg work
     
  15. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

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    Good luck with that.

    After 21 years of doing this sort of work, most folks dont know what they dont know, and even we get it wrong sometimes due to unforeseen circumstances.

    Looking to amass bits of intellectual property into a personalised strategy doesnt look to be that useful, may work may not.

    Its not rocket science, and it is simple but not obvious.

    We often inherit stuffed up structures, even where lenders like AMP or Mac have been used

    BTW not fishing for your business, we are busy with people that are needy in terms of time and advice and use a specialist in the area of what they are trying to achieve.


    PS What is the right structure for you and why ?

    ta
    rolf
     
  16. JS2000

    JS2000 New Member

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    Hi Terry appreciate your expertise.

    Quick question.

    When the funds are redrawn from the loan split does it matter if they are transferred into two different brokerage accounts then invested? For example my wife and myself?

    Cheers,
     
  17. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    Yes it matters if they come from the same loan split as it will be a mixed loan and then you will need to apportion interest. Best to seek your own tax advice.
     
  18. JS2000

    JS2000 New Member

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    Thanks Terry,

    Appreciate your advice
     
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  19. Baker

    Baker Well-Known Member

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    “The answers you get depend on the questions you ask.”

    ― Thomas S. Kuhn
     
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