Dealing with family members that have learned helplessness!

Discussion in 'Investor Psychology & Mindset' started by Serveman, 22nd Nov, 2018.

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  1. Serveman

    Serveman Well-Known Member

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    This is a tricky one me to write, but I will start by making the assumption that nearly all of you who are on this forum are people who actively want to improve your life in everything you do including financial independence and you are self motivated towards attaining some level of success.
    However in some families for every adult individual that is like this, there maybe another sibling or two which is the opposite, one who expects the government to provide everything and blames society for why they haven't got a job, money, car etc. Usually they will come to you to bail them out for all the unpaid bills they have and you help them out because they are family and You do it because you never know when you might hit hard times or your health fails, you still wonder whether you are just enabling their lifestyle.
    What is frustrating is when you try to help them in offering advice they continue to live as they choose. Imagine trying to advise someone to stop smoking because it will hurt their health or to put their money and time into good use but they resist.
    Now if you stop helping financially and other ways they might get up and take responsibility or continue to spiral down until they become destitute or the council has to come in and clean the place up.
    Question is, what is the percentage of people that overcome learned helplessness and what experience you can share in how to best manage falmily situations like this.
     
  2. EN710

    EN710 Well-Known Member

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    If this is the main reason why you help them, given their circumstances do you think they'll ever be in position to help you?

    I leave them to their own device. They are adults and if they want something bad enough, they'll start to take action. My mom didn't stop smoking until she got mini-stroke and almost died during holiday overseas, where she smoked at high altitude. There were no enough words we gave her that made her change.
     
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  3. Ted Varrick

    Ted Varrick Well-Known Member

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    There's a good chance that learning to say "No" will set you, and your family member, free, although maybe there are other aspects not outlined in your post.
     
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  4. Blacky

    Blacky Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes the you can be the most helpful by being no help at all...

    They get themselves into the mess/debt and never learn to get themselves out, because someone always comes to their rescue.... rinse, repeat.

    Learn to say no. And maybe they will too?

    Blacky
     
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  5. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    With one I have stopped. They broke commitments a few times, including promises to repay us funds which is of itself is neither here nor there. That is something I will not accept. A couple of years have passed since we have had any contact.

    Still a beneficiary of my Will though. I'm not as vengeful as all that. Anyways, it'd probably cause heaps of trouble for the Executor if I cut them out and that ain't the aim of a Will as far as I'm concerned.
     
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  6. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    Your post is put in the ‘third person’.

    Is this a situation you are actually experiencing, or is it one you are observing in another family, or even just a general question?
     
  7. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

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    I'd say be the better person and keep helping but at the same time communicate your worries and let them know that things will have to change moving forward.
     
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  8. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    You are enabling the helplessness. Why bother with bills when family member will always bail you out?

    Just stop. Tell them there is no more financial assistance. Tell them you are happy to help with budgeting their income.

    Friend was in a more difficult situation - daughter with two little ones with alcoholic and abusive husband. Friend always bailing daughter out, buying food mainly for the sake of the children. Got to the point where friend had to see a counsellor to cope. Counsellor told her she was allowing the situation to continue, and to cut off all financial aid. After a tough few months and lots of tears, daughter finally left the partner and got her life back together.

    Took me some time to learn that I can’t change another person’s behaviour, but I can change my own.
    Marg
     
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  9. Serveman

    Serveman Well-Known Member

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    I have experienced this but so have some of my friends and the other day we were discussing what one would do and the question someone asked me was:
    If you were to stop bailing these people what percentage will sink and perish and what would come through the other end in better shape. There must be some studies done on this by clinical psychologists ( maybe a Jordan Peterson type character might have an answer for this because I do not)
     
  10. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Had to cut a sibling out for similar reason - they were not financially draining me (it was my mother they were sucking on), but emotionally with all their preaching and righteousness BS while blaming everyone else for their position yet doing nothing to improve it.

    I was advised by an experienced counselor to ignore them completely, as they won't change anything until they hit rock bottom and realise it is themselves that is the issue

    Sadly we persevere, when it's family, for far longer than we would tolerate such behaviour from anyone else.

    Short answer - no - never seen anyone change from outside influencing, until they personally are ready
     
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  11. hammer

    hammer Well-Known Member

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    It's basic maths... Change needs to happen. They're not doing it so you must.
     
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  12. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I'm going through something like this now with a mates son who I went to school with and passed away a while ago and I told my mate I would try and keep his son whom I watched grow up on the right path..I had to do a urine test police check and wait a week till they said I can book an appointment for this Sunday and he has rang me one time in the afternoon this week..He does not want his mother to come as the poor Lady will just fall apart and so will her only son--so it's up to me ...In times like this one has to help---I put money in his account Monday so he can buy a small fan and 2 minute noodles each night ---and on Sunday I can only take in 20 bucks in coins with me and i'm not looking forward to this as the qld remand section has a peculiar sense of hospitality ..He may get bail but he my also not --when you get into the devil-mans meth
    it's a one way street..
    When you ask about percentage and how people overcome helplessness ,unless the person wants to change
    which hopefully a reab clinic up the sunshine coast will help ---then you either walk away or help your problem may be very different but you never ever just wash your hands and walk away I can't...
     
    Last edited: 23rd Nov, 2018
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  13. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    @willair Gold Bridge rehab at Southport are excellent.
    Marg
     
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  14. robboat

    robboat Well-Known Member

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    Gets back down to personal responsibility.....and some people need a big wake up.
    They love to be "victims"....blaming an unseen "them/they" for their own failures and lack of motivation to change.

    I try to help people to help themselves - but set a limit and an agreed goal for the person to achieve before continuing.
    That way they get the help and the incentive to continue - and your not funding learned helplessness.

    That said, I am currently dealing with a few failures within the extended family - trust issues are much harder to resolve than financial problems.
    And it all takes time....
     
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  15. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    That is so interesting - in recent years I've made a real effort not to attribute anything to "they" ... and when you listen in (okay, eavesdrop) on someone having a whinge about something, they always blame "they" in general terms but there never seems to be a specific "they" ... is simply someone who is not themselves
     
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  16. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Thanks Marg, I have sorted that out at a place up the north coast in Maleny ..Just have to wait and see ,im more worried about my dead mates Wife as the poor Lady just cant understand how quickly one life falls apart and all the other that fall in the same line..
     
  17. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Been down this road with family member

    Lesson I learnt.... you cant help someone if they dont want to help themselves.

    Sometimes they need to hit rock bottom before they actually decide its time to make a change
     
  18. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd add that people often talk about someone "hitting rock bottom". This may happen at times, where someone has some sort of epiphany, realise they've reached a low place they need to climb up from, but I know from talking to counsellors I know, that often alcohol or dug users will not have this enlightenment, and there are many "rock bottoms".

    You'll see it in movies, but in real life, it isn't usually that clean or easy.
     
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  19. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    If it’s his first time in Rehab, don’t be surprised it doesn’t work out. Sometimes the second attempt works better. Hope things go well for him.
    Marg
     
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  20. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Agreed - should change the term "rock bottom" to "epiphany point"