COVID-19 in Australia

Discussion in 'COVID-19' started by paulF, 31st Mar, 2020.

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  1. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    This actually makes a mockery of lockdown

    We should open up everything now



    no anzac day
    no footy
    restrictions on weddings
    Funerals


    Have a look at the photos in the link, tens of thousands.. like sardines

    Black Lives Matter protests lead to calls for all COVID-19 restrictions to be lifted | Daily Mail Online
     
    Last edited: 7th Jun, 2020
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  2. kierank

    kierank Well-Known Member

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    Opening too quickly is like removing the pool safety fence analogy.
     
  3. random

    random Well-Known Member

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    l'd think it's time too, well close but maybe not quite.
     
  4. random

    random Well-Known Member

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    So just wondering , was that spike on the day or a day later whatever? lf so it was probably not the Bondi thing.
    l'm just thinking any spike from that wouldn't show up until a wk or two later.
    Same with the protests
     
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  5. HUGH72

    HUGH72 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but you have missed the point here Simon with your argument. I think all of us support the right to protest injustice. Yes, it's an important issue, one of many, the right to protest is a fundamental right in a democratic society. Some of us expressing frustration is not failing to show respect, that's not the issue.

    The issue is mass gatherings in close proximity to others, either it is acceptable from a health perspective and lawful or it's not. Only 20 people have been able to gather in QLD, certainly not gatherings in excess of 20,000. Friends of ours in Cairns were recently unable to attend their grandmother's funeral due to attendance restrictions and belonging to a large extended family. Many people have made and continue to make large sacrifices.
    QLD, WA, SA,TAS and the NT have had borders closed for over 2 months.

    If it's safe for those under 50 as you suggest then it will still be safe for those under 50 on Monday morning at 8.30am.

    Businesses, activities and undertakings
     
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  6. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    Yes, I get the incongruous nature of this - it is difficult to reconcile.

    I didn't say it was safe, I said the risk of contagion was low - especially at an outdoor event.

    Being in close proximity to people in an indoor setting for an extended period of time is a much higher risk - that is why many businesses are still unable to reopen or have strict limits on how many people they can accommodate.

    The limits on numbers at outdoor events are rather arbitrary - but many of them are there to prevent specific situations. For example, sitting next to someone for a couple of hours at an outdoor sporting event is much higher risk than walking down the road with a group of people. Similarly, attending an outdoor party where you are talking to people for an extended period.

    It's also not helpful in arguments like this when the states have significantly different approaches to their lockdown rules - we are often talking about different things because of the different rules.
     
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  7. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    60,000 protestorso_O across the country
     
  8. random

    random Well-Known Member

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    See the US is just starting to spike now , 12 days since protesting began,Yesterday they went from 5500 p mil to 6100 p mil , if it's done the damage you'd expect that should start to go much higher now over the next few wks. Haven't checked the UK or others yet.
    Just sayin , but mind you l don't really expect much of a spike from ours though myself. Totally different sitch.
     
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  9. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Some issues are worth the low risk ... the government seems to have no problem at exposing it's citizens to risk - from Vietnam to planet destroying pollution
     
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  10. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    I see gatherings as a form of Russian roulette. There may be a lot of empty chambers, but there's still the possibility of a bullet in one of them. If we opened up completely, it would be like playing the game of Russian roulette multiple times - on each occasion, the chance of getting a bullet is small, but the more often it's done, the better the chance of getting a bullet.

    The protests were outdoors, for a limited number of hours, probably with minimal crowding in public transport - factors which reduced the chance of a bullet. If reopening was to take place, those factors would effectively multiply the chance of a bullet for any person, as well as increasing the number of people who could get hit.

    Although I wouldn't be surprised if the authorities will monitor the number of infections very closely, to determine how active coronavirus is now. If there are minimal infections within two weeks of the demonstrations, we may well see a more rapid opening up.

    While the US experience with increasing infections is relevant, we are starting from a lower base, so perhaps the risk is much lower here (I hope so, one of my daughters was out there yesterday).
     
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  11. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    I humbly disagree

    a classic case of hypocrisy, excuses, excuses......no social distancing

    medical recommendations by our health experts on covid should apply to all across the board and be consistent

    it makes a mockery. Why did we bother

    I am not interested in USA

    now lets see.......


    Black Lives Matter protests expose Australia's COVID contradictions | Daily Mail Online
     
    Last edited: 8th Jun, 2020
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  12. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    You love to quote the Daily Mail. This piece is a very opinionated piece from a publication with a strong right wing bias and low factual reporting.
    Daily Mail - Media Bias/Fact Check

    The event should not have happened in this environment. But it has happened, probably due to the depth of feeling so many people had for the situation, and we will see the results in a few weeks. The fact that it has happened should not be an excuse to open up everything immediately. NSW tried hard to have it banned, and almost succeeded.
     
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  13. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Many media platforms have fire walls unfortunately

    However, I think I should not be discriminated against and be able to post my choice of publications, same as what other PC members currently do
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 8th Jun, 2020
  14. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    You are free to post whatever you want. And I'm free to point out bias in your links (or anybody else's if they choose to do so) the same as you have done (correctly) for posts of mine.

    This was a particularly biased post from a publication with a strong bias.
     
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  15. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Feel free to ignore the links I post

    It is what it is, we know that there was no social distancing, we know it was hypocritical

    Feel free to read the Australian or Age, summing it up the same
     
  16. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    How can this be rationalised, these Premiers need a reality check..... totally disconnected

    'Killed slowly and painfully': Tourism industry calls for Queensland border to open
     
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  17. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

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    one factor that hasnt been mentioned is that when these protestors (masks or not), when they protest are going to be very vocal, ie yelling and screaming =more chance of virus droplets being released

    much higher risk than the same number of people lying on bondi beach in my opinion
     
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  18. Heinz57

    Heinz57 Well-Known Member

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    Re low risk of disease spreading outside v indoors. The two main catalysts for the explosion of cases in the UK were the Cheltenham horse races and the Liverpool Soccer match - both outdoors.
     
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  19. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    Sporting events are a little different because you typically stay in one place for an extended period in close proximity to other people. Wouldn't really matter if it was an outdoor football match or an indoor basketball match - the net result would be largely the same. Similarly with horse races - people sitting in the stands or standing around drinking with their friends are in close proximity to each other for an extended period of time.

    It's not as simple as "indoor vs outdoor" - you have to actually consider what people are doing there.
     
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  20. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Mind boggles