COVID-19 in Australia

I can't get over the amount of Northern Beaches people having a whinge in the media - oh woe is me, we've been forgotten, it's such a hardship - ffs people, it's been a few weeks, get over yourself

Stoopid entitled idiots

 

Much if this is the media chasing a headline, looking for public outrage which based on your comment obviously works. It's not a consistent view across the Northern Beaches.

 

I could think of worse locations to be confined.

 

I'm confident that Victoria will be better prepared this time around. Re-introducing mandatory mask wearing for ALL public indoor settings across the states also sets the tone on the seriousness of the situation given what we know on the infectiousness of this coronavirus. Not a great start to the year but a little bit of inconvenience now means much less pain later.

Going forward, how many State Premiers will be listening too the pleas from Gladys in NSW on State borders? Even now, NSW doesn't have mandatory mask-wearing.

 

It's not even a real lockdown ... can still go to the beach and takeaway for coffee and supermarket etc

10 new cases and S.A. have closed their border (understandably). Still yet to meet the first grandchild who is now nearly 7 months old

 

I can see it now in 10 years time, the new pub argument...."My lockdown was worse than yours...."

 

And WA being it's own country and never opening it's border ever again to the rest of the country

 

Whilst we sit on the cusp of covid hysteria again with looming lockdowns as the only means by which to manage this virus, Sanjeev Sabhlok, former economist with the Victorian Department of Treasury and Finance, takes us through the fatal reactionary measures that governments continue to take.

NoCookies | The Australian

I can post the text or a link to read if people are unable to access it.

 

Can't access - but would rather some short term economic pain - supported by banks and government and a "help your mate" attitude - than permanent fatal measures.

If we let this virus rip to the extent of US and UK (and most other European countries) - we'd be currently sitting at a death rate of nearly 27,000 ... and those countries still reckon the worst is yet to come

 

Factually correct but he doesn't get it. Who are the people who tend to the elderly in the aged care facilities.....yes, young people who are just as liable to catch the virus as anyone and infect. There is no safety in ring-fencing the elderly unless you ask the young who look after them to put their lives on hold also.

 

Victoria will be closing its border with NSW from midnight tonight.

About time!

 

I don't think holding Sweden up as a poster boy is reassuring

The reason why this isn't the same as the "Spanish flu" is mainly because we now have antibiotics to treat the secondary inflammatory disease - in the lungs, heart, vascular system etc - which is what is killing people.

I understand that he is an "expert" and I am an unqualified pleb - but I'd rather listen to the 100 specialists (who advise leaders such as Andrews) - than the sensationalist solitary one who resigned in protest because his opinion differed from the majority and is trying to flog a book.

He claims the lockdowns have claimed/shortened millions of lives - but that is merely his opinion and not based in fact. What "hundreds of avoidable deaths" due to the Victorian lockdown? If he is talking about suicide, I would suspect they were vulnerable people who may have taken their lives if the virus was rampant and crippling people around them.

Currently in the UK, 10% of all positively tested people end up in hospital - true figure is probably closer to 5% of all who have Covid - which is an enormous strain on the health system and preventing others from accessing vital care ... in the US 5 major hospitals in California ran out of oxygen this week with not a single ICU bed available in the entire state ... death rate is still around 10x that of influenza, with major issues with "long covid" health problems.

The death rate in the US currently stands at 330,000 - divided by 13 to account for different populations - this would equal 27,000 deaths (in the last 9 months) in Australia - and the US is expected to top 400,000 dead by the end of January.

This is not some "ordinary" flu

 

He is a two-bob economist and no medical guru. You give him too much credence and your opinion is as valid as his.

 

With all due respect, I believe you don't get it.

The author no doubt recognizes your point and knows that a level of spread is inevitable, even within care homes. The management of care homes across the world has been woeful during the pandemic, irrespective of left/right governments. However, this is another topic altogether.

To my first sentence, those, like myself, who advocate against lockdowns, come from a position of 'getting it', but are misunderstood or mischarecterised by the media, general public and most politicans. No solution can ever be found, only can a tradeoff be negotiated. We advocate that the tradeoffs being made by governments are overtly harsh, misguided, ill-considered, narrow and even deadly.

To take the Victoria government as an example, they have decided that the following social and economic products are to be traded off in order to save a single life from covid:

• All other ailments and diseases to be relegated lower in the hierarchy at the expense of treating and managing COVID
• Hospitals to prioritize covid at the expense of others
• People's livelihoods impacted by them losing their job
• People's mental illness enormously impacted
• People's lifestyles reduced significantly
• The economy sacrificed, mostly impacting young people, lower incomes and decimating small business.

I could go on.

I believe the tradeoffs made are incomprehensible and devastating when taking a generation-long longitudinal view of the impacts on people. I also firmly believe we will look back at lockdowns as a terrible mistake.

The moral position on this issue is nuanced. Too many pro lockdown folks gatekeep the moral narrative of empathy and demonize those against lockdowns as moral degenerates. It is absolutely appalling. I’m also not saying this is you, but a generalised experience I have received, including from family.

We 'get it', we just anchor our morality on what I argue is a more comprehensive and considered tradeoff that recognizes risk through a lens that acknowledges that some things have to give and that some lives will be lost from COVID but saved elsewhere. The moral landscape in front of us is obviously unique to us as individuals but the universal wish for human flourishing is shared by us all.

I wouldn't for a second assume to know the author's entire position, but would tend to think, based on my conversations with people who share my thinking, that he'd likely acknowledge some or many of the above points. So, I step in to share a common viewpoint as this is one of the few forums where civility can be had and is well moderated.

Peace out. I'm off to celebrate 2021 arriving!

 

I was thinking 2 cents

I think you did as well

 

Nope...originally from Scotland, I work in old money

Old habits die hard and I cannot get rid of that accent no matter how long I stay

 

Yeah nah. Your wording seems to imply that the anti lock downers are that only ones that "get it" and that those who don't agree with your view are somehow wrong.

Sorry but, with all my research and peer review readings and detailed analysis of the world situation since early February, and Australia's very fortunate position compared to our comparables ... I'm still sitting in the majority camp of supporting what Andrews, and other State leaders, did and are doing.

Be careful of only listening to, and conversing with, those that "share your view" as this will only entrench confirmation bias

 

Unfortunately, the pasted article has been deleted and the original is behind the paywall that I and most others can't access. The article is the central theme of several posts so with respect (and it probably isn't your job), it would be better to either remove all posts that reference the article, re-paste the article in full or provide a link to the article that an be accessed by all. Previous posts read and future posts made without seeing the article are all done without context and can't really be discussed and debated sensibly.

However, have a good 2021.