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Could we do bad PM list here??

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by samiam, 24th Mar, 2016.

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  1. samiam

    samiam Well-Known Member

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    after reading @Honeydew thread about Bad PM, and wonder is it a good idea to list so that to warn other people?
     
  2. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    No.

    If you have a story to tell, sure - by all means relate your experiences. But be careful about the language you use and any accusations or assertions you make and remember that there are usually two sides to every story (three, if you like songs by Extreme).

    In general, threads like this won't add any value without context and I'm much more interested in seeing an in-depth discussion about exactly what went wrong and how it could have been avoided - use it as a learning tool.
     
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  3. Xenia

    Xenia Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

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    I have been running a business for 11 years and can tell you that it's not all smooth sailing. Things do go wrong and there are also perceived expectations that do not form part of the systems of an agency or a tenancy. People get upset for all sorts of reasons some warranted, some not.

    A good business person is one who can turn things around and ensure that clients do not lose money due to thier management. It is not one where nothing has ever gone wrong - that is impossible.

    I would rather turn this on its head where people post experienced they like about the management of their properties and the reasons why.
     
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  4. Tony Fleming

    Tony Fleming Well-Known Member Business Member

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    I agree. Plenty of people have told me one of the agencies I use are terrible/dodgy. That ten years ago they screwed a investor over. The staff have changed multiple times before I came along. I've never had a issue with them in fact they really go over board on providing good service. For every bad stories about an agency there is probably 10 good stories. People Ike to complain more than praise.
     
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  5. samiam

    samiam Well-Known Member

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    ok. make sense.:oops:
     
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  6. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

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    You usually won't find out till things have gone real bad, the largest % of tenants won't cause this to happen, so people often will not know.

    You do get some agents that will have some sort of problem, like gambling etc who will say the tenants are behind, etc etc and avoid doing anything about it, cause in reality, the tenant is paying !

    Not as common nowadays, but 40 years ago, this kind of theft was common.

    Every PM has to have a few basket cases for whatever reason, this is different from a major systemic problem. Staff turnover can be a problem.
     
  7. Patamea

    Patamea Well-Known Member

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    Only if the PMs can do a Bad Landlord thread..... To be fair
     
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  8. Skilled_Migrant

    Skilled_Migrant Well-Known Member

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    The third one is the tenant in this instance :)
     
  9. HUGH72

    HUGH72 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this, if you have a great tenant and nothing goes wrong, few maintenance issues you might not really know.
    Once things go wrong how it is handled is what matters most.
    The red flags for me include pms who fail to return emails/calls in a day or two and those who don't follow through with maintenance requests.
    Also some pms in regional areas are slack with rent arrears, really annoys me. In metro areas most are on to this straight away.
     
  10. DiligentPM

    DiligentPM Well-Known Member Business Member

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    I love a strength based approach.

    Business owners care about reputation. I would not participate in a discussion defaming individuals/businesses or services particularly given the tenet of natural justice where both sides of a matter have a right to be heard otherwise it becomes a defamation matter.

    I would love to participate in unpacking experiences to learn from them within the spirit of continuous learning and improvement
     
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  11. datto

    datto Well-Known Member

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    Two agents have threatened to sue me in the past lol

    I really can't say too much except &$@&!; them lol.
     
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  12. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

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    Did you get hands on dats ?
     
  13. Ted Varrick

    Ted Varrick Well-Known Member

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    Only 2? You should try a large, previously relevant operating system company...

    Puckering up for the former is probably not as important for the latter...
     
  14. datto

    datto Well-Known Member

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    MS?
     
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  15. Traveller99

    Traveller99 Active Member

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    I agree with switching it to a positive. I changed agents on my two properties over a period of 6 months to the same one and it was the best thing I've done. Good agents are worth their weight in gold, especially as I live OS. :)
     
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  16. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    Actually, there is merit in discussing the things that go wrong. Learning from your mistakes is an important part of personal and professional development.

    But even where the mistakes are someone else's, there are powerful lessons to be learned from analysing exactly what went wrong, what remedies were available to address the mistakes, how you handled it, what the implications where, and so on.

    Only ever focussing on the positives and not examining the potential negatives and being prepared for them, is only ever going to end in tears.

    It's like insurance. You have it in preparation for the worst case scenario - and focussing on the positive stories all you like will not pay for your losses when the worst does happen.

    There are a lot of risks we face as investors - and the risks introduced by people we engage to manage things on our behalf (eg property managers) are things we must address as well.

    Once more - I would encourage people to share stories of when things went wrong - not from the perspective of trying to eke out some form of revenge on those you feel have wronged you - but from the perspective of helping others learn from your experience and so hopefully avoiding similar mistakes - or at least being aware of the warning signs for when things do go wrong.

    I am rarely in favour of "naming and shaming", but I am always in favour of "analysing and learning".
     
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  17. Traveller99

    Traveller99 Active Member

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    I agree with the above. Is much more constructive to share stories and learnings than naming individuals. Good post, Simon.
     
  18. WattleIdo

    WattleIdo renovating Premium Member

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    This is still happening, unfortunately - though easier to catch them out these days. In some way not able to manage money and / or poor choices in staffing, employing thieves in a suit.
    I've experienced PM theft twice in the last few years. The first time it was my rent which was misplaced - even though I rang up, sent statements etc it wasn't ammended until the situation had been sent to ASIC. That was 2K that my landlord was looking for. Fortunately, all my transactions were electronic and easily traced. There were plenty of people who paid In cash who lost their money.
    The 2nd time was only recently. I thought I'd finally found a good PM but turns out he stole from the manager while she was in hospital. Wiped all the records too, which is a bit of a pain for me because I was trying the paperless method. The woman he stole from is the same one I spoke to about discrepencies in the first agency. I didn't realise it when I signed up. Fortunately for me my tenants had just exited.
    Although she's not guilty, she certainly mixes with the wrong crowd! A very poor judge of character. Important to beware of a poor judge of character because they put a lot of energy into defending their decisions and staff choices and waste time, effort and money.
    Easy to track this kind of theft these days - hate to think what it was like in the past. I really don't know why they bother trying it now.
    The main problem I'm finding in this area is the large number of tenancies that the PMs have to deal with. They would probably be good if they didn't have so many properties to look after. They don't have time to make sure the tenants know that they must pay their rent on time and the disadvantages of not doing so. And they use antiquated banking methods. They don't have the time or energy to get themselves up to date.