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Corner Blocks X 3 (which is the best)

Discussion in 'General Property Chat' started by melbournian, 13th Mar, 2016.

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Which is the best block

  1. 1

    4 vote(s)
    40.0%
  2. 2

    5 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. 3

    1 vote(s)
    10.0%
  1. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    i've been spending time going further and Looking around some new suburbs and came across three corner blocks around 530-600sqm mark. They seem good for dual occupancy.
    2 are on auction the same day at the same time and one on another day. Been reading a lot about the subdivision rules where the one can use the primary frontage and the other secondary frontage cand be 2-3 meters (for the new dev). Given the configurations - trying to work out which among these are the best in terms of return from dev or capital growth wise.

    Corner Block 1 : 530ish sqm, this one a semi detached house to the next door neighbour (which means less value if sub divided) currently tenanted month to month. 3 light poles though at the corner and at the boundary (one looks like it's gonna drop) ranges 500-550K. GRZ1 which means no site coverage fixed percentage Lots of neighbours and houses with double storey sub divisions.

    upload_2016-3-13_11-5-26.png


    Corner Block 2 : 600ish square meters. THe largest of the 3. House is really run down and requires a lot of work, untenanted - though it is easy to throw a house on the side. ranges 550-600K. (not to mention this one has the tenant which committed suicide - so a stigmatised property). GRZ2 with site coverage at 40%. Vegetation overlays.

    upload_2016-3-13_11-8-35.png

    Corner 3 : 560sqm though better mainted block. Asking above 600K. Agents seem a bit uptight however feel the dimensions are slightly skewed could only get a smaller townhouses if sub divided. Also not many neighbours have any double storey townhouse so would be a hard one. GRZ2 with site coverage and vegetation overlays.

    upload_2016-3-13_11-12-19.png
     
  2. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    Is the house on block 2 worth keeping? May be worth demolishing (get rid of the suicude stigma) and give you a clean site?
    Marg
     
  3. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    yeah i had some legal opinions on this and you cannot deny it. i think there was a phillipines guy who murdered his family in sydney and sold the property only to be later found out that it was not disclosed whereby the sale was cancelled. Also cost more to demo and rebuild - i rather just keep one rent it out and then take my time to do plans etc (also less financial impact overall).
     
  4. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    I'd probably go number 1 in terms of original house placement and how much work is required on number 2 and the small new lot of #3
     
  5. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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    #1 is a semi, so that rules it out for me.
    #2 would be worthwhile considering due the stigma factor (so hoping to pick it up cheaper). Then knock EVERYTHING down and rebuild.
    #3 don't really have an opinion on this one.

    Does it require disclosure about the death if the house itself was a knocked down a new house was built in its place?
     
  6. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    Do check what kind of title the semi is on. Is it truly a semi or are you just talking about something that is built to the boundary. Sometimes a true semi will have a type of title which can't be split again.
     
  7. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    It is joined to the other house as in shared walls. Issue is with the corner block u want to put the driveway on both sides with a garage would be on the side of semi of the original dwelling for option 1 which would require neighbour's approval. think with option 1 and 3 it is more partial demo. My preference is to keep the 1st dwelling to minimise rebuild cost. Waiting on the s32 to read any covenants or easement etc
     
  8. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    I like #3 due to u can rent it out no issues. But 2 will wipe out majority of Asian buyers in the near future for resale. #1 is a semi as u mentioned which is valued less if sold separately
     
  9. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    What do the sums say? If you build in the rear of the 3 and the end values of both properties which has the best profit?
     
  10. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    Best in terms of sum is number 2 but yeah stigmatised unfortunately. just want something to hold and not develop straight away hence considering the rental aspect. Sqm of 3 is good though the sqm is smaller than 1 and 2 if building in the rear.
     
  11. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. That is why i would knock it down. Personally I'm not sure if i would still live in there after a knock down, but maybe others are indifferent.
     
  12. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    @neK @Westminster i think these blocks will sell well on day even if the Sums or numbers dun add up. it's kind of hard to secure IPs in melbourne nowadays let alone potential sub div sites. i have been unsuccessful in auctions over the last 3 months.
     
  13. Connor

    Connor Well-Known Member

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    I love these type of dev projects, corner blocks, retain and build. Great little earners.

    #1 zoning is definitely a positive, as is the fact that it's currently tenanted. Personally I wouldn't go for the semi detached style home but if it means that you could possibly pick up the site abit cheaper, then that would help to offset its lower future valuation. And at the end of the day it's all about how the $$ stack up.

    #2 Good sized block, buy that stigma would be concerning come resale time. Maybe even getting a tenant could be a challenge?

    #3 Seems a really tight fit, esp with any coverage and vegetation overlays.
    I'm taking a stab as I don't know what area it is but maybe the higher purchase price, and possible design compromise due to the smaller lot and coverage/vegetation requirements may mean the final margins may be reduced.

    I'm currently doing this exact same type of build, and looking for another. I hope we're not bidding against one another at the auctions..haha
     
  14. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    Nah i'm only scoping around. Hopefull not but throw me a bone. :)
    what do you think about his corner block in maidstone? smaller though more expensive

    1 Dunedin Street Maidstone Vic 3012 - House for Sale #121812670 - realestate.com.au

    passed in at auction. I think this one is too small though in a GRZ1 area you can fit 3 into the block on 477sqm. Only drawbacks is the funds involved in the this kind of projects.
     
  15. gach2

    gach2 Well-Known Member

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    OK

    its going to be hard for us to determine whats good and bad as we dont have addresses/council (dont need to provide but just letting you know)

    Is this going to be torrens or strata subdivision
    Whats the demand for houses on small lot, is there demand for duplexs?
    Is there a premium for corner blocks
    Are you able to build double storey detatched dwelling and retain an existing single storey (most councils do not allow to do this, if single then other dwelling must be single as well but again check with council not me)

    Block 1;
    1) whats the existing dwelling setback from secondary st at the moment, if over 6 metres are you able to change the address to the wider boundary road?
    2) is the laundry and toilet part of the existing house or is it an extension (if required to be demolished easily would be good)
    3) can u do dual occ with existing attached dwelling
    Honestly the best of the 3 but im not sure how great this block is overall

    Block 2: While it might be cheap due to the stigma i dont see an significance in this block if you are going to demolish and build 2 dwelling, unless duplexs are not in demand. You might as well buy any block (corner or non corner) with similar size and zoning (if anything a lot of land is lost on corner blocks to front and side setbacks)

    Block 3
    From the pics theres no room for a decent size dwelling on the property
     
  16. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    @gach2 i wasn't particularly looking for corners but conincidentally 3 came up on the listings which is rare at any given time. Don't have much experience in corners. my preference is to do a dual occupancy torrens not strata and keep the existing dwelling rather than demo (prefer just a reno for existing dwelling)

    From speaking to the council ( they reference a B6 standard of clause 55 )

    Clause 55.03-1 Standard B6 states that:

    “Corner blocks are allowed to have a Side Setback of the abutting neighbour’s front wall setback *OR* 2m – whichever is *lesser*.”

    This means that Corner Blocks offer the possibility of a "larger building envelope" since building is allowed further forward than on a regular block. i saw a couple of corner blocks like that which were like 2 meters setback. Again all hypothetical atm. i'm open to normal blocks too.
     
  17. gach2

    gach2 Well-Known Member

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    @melbournian

    when it comes to strata or torrens im sure everyone prefers torrens but just make sure its allowable (im not sure as i have no idea about the area or council)

    Corner blocks are perfect for retaining existing dwelling and doing a dual occ but finding a good block is hard (prob best to search the entire city in your price range)

    Umm not sure what your rules are but if its is 2m side setback u loose 2m on that side and the side setback on the other side (minimum 1.8m from the neighbours dwelling if you dont want to pay for firerated walls)

    Whats the side setback for normal blocks?

    In councils i have dealt with its 6m front and 0.9m side for normal blocks and 6m front and 3m to side that has a road (im guessing 2m for you) and 0.9 to the other side, Im both cases rear boundary had to be 3m. In this case im loosing 2.1m x length of the house in building envelope). The only way you would have larger envelope is if the side setback for you is more than 2m
     
  18. Be Developer

    Be Developer Property Developer Business Member

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    @melbournian

    Based on information you posted (without looking at numbers)

    I would go for site 1. Reasons are

    GRZ1:
    No vegetation overlay
    if house is in good condition (possible to retain and do additional attached dwelling )
    With bit of creative work, you may not need extra cross over or, just relocation of crossover.
    Could be quick and easy, retain a build project.


    Other two GRZ 2 zoning /Vegetation overlay and smaller blocks, kills the deal.
     
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  19. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    correct me if i am wrong - the primary frontage is 6m and the secondary frontage (side) is 2m (where the 2nd dwelling is) plus the non-shared driveways, that is what the advantage is i presume. u're very right finding a block is hard actually finding a property for the righ price is hard enough
     
    Last edited: 15th Mar, 2016
  20. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    biggest block is the stigmatised block and the smallest is the site 1. though yes it is GRZ1 so no restrictions at all in site coverage (though semi houses sell for less talking maybe 50-100K less). i'm not sure nowadays even great sites u go for you might be priced out (as just abt every property is auctioned in melbourne) as the longer the searches the longer the opportunity costs as i don't have much to work with.
     
    Last edited: 15th Mar, 2016