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Connecting neigbor to storm water pit?

Discussion in 'Development' started by albanga, 8th Jul, 2015.

  1. albanga

    albanga Well-Known Member

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    I have a real curly one I'm going to throw out there to see if anyone has dealt with something similar.

    I am building a new dwelling out the back of my PPOR.

    There is no storm water and the planning permit has a condition that a pump pit has to be constructed to pump the water up to the curb. Currently the front dwellings storm water just tips into the ground at the rear!!

    This to now is not a big deal but how it gets tricky is that I need to subdivide and then sell the front property before I can build out the back. It makes no sense to construct this first as it will just get destroyed during construction.

    Now when it finally does get constructed I need something legally in place that will stipulate that the front property has its storm water re-directed into this pit. Clearly I don't want it just ripping into my back property around my foundations.
    Secondly I also want something in place which stipulates responsibility by both property owners for maintenance of the pump pit. Given that storm water will also be run into it.
    Note - There isn't common land so the pump will be within the boundary of the rear lot.

    Any ideas?
     
  2. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    can you divert the current stormwater to the front of house and out to the street? What slope are we talking?

    What type/size pit is needed for one of these contraptions? It should be fine if its in a back corner, just get the builder to run some flaggin around it and clear communication they pay for any damages to to it.
     
  3. albanga

    albanga Well-Known Member

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    Hey Bob,
    Thanks for your reply!
    Unfortunately the slope is to severe for the front property to be re-directed without a pump to push it up the slope. Technically I could do a pump for each dwelling but they are not cheap. We are talking around 12-15k per one.

    The current design has the pump pit about halfway up the property directly in the centre of the rear driveway BUT reading what you just said has me thinking!
    It was likely designed like this because I only recently had success in having a second crossover added so when that happened it removed any common ground. Perhaps the engineers did this thinking it would be shared hence the best place to put the pit was in the shared land.

    So regardless now it's no longer common BUT it still doesn't fix the issue of maintenance.

    I know a section173 can be put in place for some things but it does not fall into this category.
     
  4. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    Ok... out there idea for ppor
    Is it possible to catch all your water into a rain water tank, then have the tank set high so the over flow can run out to the street.tank would need to be set up high and possibly the over flow "primed" or holding water, what ever the word is. Pushing the water to the street?
    You could do it without the tank i guess.

    Is the roof gutter higher than the street??

    Also tank designed in the middle so it's only pushing water up half the block and also less head pressure, meaning smaller pump, less wear and tear
     
    Last edited: 9th Jul, 2015
  5. albanga

    albanga Well-Known Member

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    I like your way of thinking Bob :)
    Unfortunately again though my council is ridiculously strict and there is simply no way they would allow this for the PPOR. Yes technically the guttering is higher than the street but they have made themselves pretty clear that my only option for the back is the pit and my only option for the front is leaving it as is (ummm no!) OR re-directing it into the pit.

    I posted my dilemma into the legal thread as well. I am thinking there must be a way to make it legally binding as a caveat or something? Understand that may reduce the potential asking price but it could be cheaper than building something that will get destroyed.
     
  6. Handyandy

    Handyandy Well-Known Member

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    This is called a charged storm water system
     
  7. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    Charged! That's the one i was after @Handyandy

    Push for charged, much better than a pump ! Have you tried swearing at them?:)
    Well actually you can do what you like if they said leave as is! Just "leave as is" for the paper work, then go the charged option. Job done! Too easy, just play their game
     
    Handyandy likes this.
  8. Skilled_Migrant

    Skilled_Migrant Well-Known Member

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    I had a similar problem. Solution:
    • Complete the storm water plumbing for both the units including hook up to the pit prior to selling the front unit.
    • Cover the pit with a couple of yellow tongues on the grate. This will easily take the weight of excavators and prevent the pit from filling up
    • Cover it back with the soil to obtain the same ground level prior to the excavation
    • Get the plumbers certificate and include it in your section 32 along with engineers drawing.
    • Make appropriate reference in the body corporate documentation.
    • Hail almighty caveat emptor.
    • The existing arrangement for the storm water for the front unit persists till you are ready for completing the new driveway and installing the pump.
    • "We are talking around 12-15k per one" That's way too expensive IMHO.
     
  9. Rockstar

    Rockstar Well-Known Member

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    This is why my council won't allow any dual occ unless all stormwater can be detained and run back to the street. They will not accept pumps to deal with it. We are allowed to charge the system as long as the gutter or outlet from the tank is minimum 1.5m above the kerb. I would definitely be running the front house to the street in a charged system if it is permitted.
    Have you approched the neighbours at the rear to see if they are willing to sell you an easement to drain stormwater through their land?
    Hope the pump is not noisy!
     
  10. albanga

    albanga Well-Known Member

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    SkilledMigrant! Thank you so much for this detailed response that is brilliant.
    Can I ask in your situation how much the pump pit and plumbing cost? I have had no official quotes only what the builders have made allowance for in the quotes I have recieved so obviously includes their margin.
    My house is on a decent slope though so perhaps that is contributing to the cost.

    Hey Rockstar, unfortunately my rear neigbor also has no storm water, some bright idiot 80 years ago when making lots decided the whole area didn't need any. Council is now sticking there heads in the sand saying you guys deal with it. There is a dispute going on with people in the street right now regarding it.
    As you and bob mentioned perhaps it's time to go back to council about the front block and a charged system. Any idea what something like this would cost?
     
  11. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    Where did the 12-15 price come from? I wouldn't be surprised if that was the lot.

    The depth of pit and distance to street will be main factors, plus conduit for electrical
    Pits you can get pre cast <2k
    excavator would get the pit and pipes done in a day (pending depth and length)
    Instal straight forward, dig hole for pit, drop in pit. dig and lay pipe and conduits
    Bit of sand for bedding pit and around pipe, few hundred $
    Sparky to hook up electrical supply at meter box
     
  12. Skilled_Migrant

    Skilled_Migrant Well-Known Member

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    The total cost of storm-water and sewerage plumbing including connection to the existing systems was 12500 (with pump and pit). But this is in hobsons bay council and the plumber is from Geelong and the work was finished in March last year. Tradies vary the price by 20-40% just for crossing the west-gate bridge:confused:.
    Pumps are designed for domestic capacities are fairly robust with respect to discharge head and flow rates and should be fairly cheap (500-1000) to service adequate level of slope. If a car can negotiate the slope, so should the pump.