Complain or Conquer, is housing affordability really the issue?

Discussion in 'Property Market Economics' started by albanga, 10th May, 2016.

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  1. Ran Gus

    Ran Gus Well-Known Member

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    I thought writing /sarcasm there made it pretty obvious, but I guess it wasn't clear enough.

    My point is if people didn't 'complain' about things as you say, nothing would ever change and we'd still be back in the dark ages.
     
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  2. wogitalia

    wogitalia Well-Known Member

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    Maybe because both parents have to work to afford to pay for their mortgage because of house prices and it's the sacrifice that most families are now forced to make because most people don't earn anything close to the average wage in Australia and trying to get them to the best school/day care is the best compromise that is possible.
     
  3. EN710

    EN710 Well-Known Member

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    Best school and full time day care cost about one person average salary at the very least, so technically those with "average" salary would be pretty much in the same situation with one income and one carer.

    If they can pay both private school, day care and still better off with loan it is unlikely that they earn "average" income.
     
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  4. wogitalia

    wogitalia Well-Known Member

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    Yes and surviving and paying the mortgage cost the other persons salary. Kids need school so if you want to send them to the best it's the sacrifice that has to be made, most people can't just jump in and out of jobs either so there isn't a real option to just work when the school expenses come up and none of the rest of the time.

    How many people on this forum are honestly living on the median household income in Australia of 60k? It's why we always end up with a very biased perspective on issues like housing affordability, if you're one of the 80% of Australia living below the average wage or the 50% of households on 60k or less would you think that even a 450k house in Mount Druitt was affordable or that the 90k deposit was happening anytime soon?

    There's a reason this will be a major issue for an extended period of time and it goes beyond that some people just like to have a sook.
     
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  5. EN710

    EN710 Well-Known Member

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    I was.
    I was earning less than 30K and pretty much paying bills to bills for the first 2 years of my working life.
    Jump jobs several time for better salary, keep living cost low and start saving. And don't say people can't do this. It happens all the time. Not easy but need to be timed right so limited non-paid time.
    Buying house is nothing sort of "anytime soon" but it happened. I planned it for the last several years.
     
  6. chylld

    chylld Well-Known Member

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    Same. Started on 35k while many of my friends (same age) were earning 6 figures and already buying property. I never complained; instead I just knuckled down and got on with it.

    Indeed, it appears there are many people who love sooking about people having a sook.
     
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  7. D.T.

    D.T. Specialist Property Manager Business Member

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    Bought my first place when i was on $27k pa in 2004 :)
     
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  8. wogitalia

    wogitalia Well-Known Member

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    The statement wasn't who was once on that, when I was tending a bar I was on next to nothing also, it's that this forum as a whole is so far removed from the normal Australian as to have a warped perspective on things like affordability or even opportunity as it pertains to the majority of Australians.

    We just had a thread where someone (I forget who it was) suggested that a retired couple would need 90k a year to live at a reasonable level under the conditions that they owned their own house and had no irregular outgoings. Yet we think housing is affordable for a household on 60k that has to pay rent of 500 a week?
     
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  9. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    We never earned above the average and still managed to buy a couple of IPs. We did it tough and I believe the reason those on this forum are so far removed from the normal Australian is because (like us), many have been there and striven to rise above "average".

    We would fall into the category even now of "asset rich, cash poor" but we manage somehow. When I put it on paper I shake my head and don't know where the money comes from week to week.

    Because we worked hard for so many years though, we could sell a house tomorrow and change our circumstances immediately. That isn't luck or being "above average". That is clever planning and hard work.
     
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  10. albanga

    albanga Well-Known Member

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    The point I was trying make @wogitalia which probably got lost admittedly in my heavy handed subject was that many people these days simply have the opportunity and ability to go beyond the restraints of the 60k median household income you refer to. You can work the 9-5 and as one of my mentors Steve McKnight says "you get what you get and you don't complain" OR you can push past that barrier and realise opportunity is everywhere IF you want it.
    Sure there are exceptions, no statement can cover everything and everyone but a huge portion of the population fit into the category of having a far greater opportunity than they allow themselves.

    And I know some others have stated that why should we work harder than those before us but come on is that really relevant today? You simply cannot compare the daily and working life of someone 30 years ago to today. How much of our life is simpler and automated thanks to modern technology. I know many people earning passive income from the luxury of there couch with master chef running in the background. Every single job and task is simpler today than it EVER was. We have probably gotten back 10 hours a week alone thanks to the Internet that those in the 80s didn't have the luxury of. Just remember that the next time you pay wave your credit card or magically pay a bill from the couch, not waiting in a 2 hour queue at the post office.
     
  11. Observer

    Observer Well-Known Member

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    Exactly my thoughts! I came from the country where average monthly salary is about $100 now. Never complained about things like that, just kept working my arse off to get where I'm now. Australia is an awesome country with so many opportunities. It's a shame so many locals don't get this.
     
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  12. wogitalia

    wogitalia Well-Known Member

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    Don't disagree with the first part, there are a lot of very average people out there that are perfectly happy to be average and would rather complain than change that. There are also a lot of people that are working harder than you to earn significantly less though and a lot of people who just don't have the skills or intelligence to actually do much more.

    The second part is what we're doing wrong, using technological advances as a reason that people should work more and have less? Shouldn't we have more time, not less time if everything is easier?
     
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  13. jins13

    jins13 Well-Known Member

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    Can l say, l respectfully disagree with your statement. Impossibility is something which you place on yourself. If you are fixated with that kind of attitude, that is your limit. We forget that in Australia there are opportunities for people to advance themselves and further their skills and knowledge ie a friend who is working as a solicitor now when he was in corrective services for the last 20 years.

    You can keep saying how hard it is and the government is to blame, but that's the easy way out and taking away the fact that sonetimes life is about risk and sacrifice.

    Work hard today to build your future!
     
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  14. Pernoi

    Pernoi Active Member

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    Jesus H Christ. Did you seriously just use 'pull yourself up by the bootstraps'?

    Try applying facts to the situation rather than empty dogma which avoids reality, while simultaneously reinforcing that very reality.
     
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  15. larrylarry

    larrylarry Well-Known Member

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  16. albanga

    albanga Well-Known Member

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    @wogitalia It is definitely the first group you mentioned of which this post is focused. I appreciate some just do not have that opportunity and to that it seems a harsh post. What I would question though, is of those making the most noise, which group do you feel they would fall into? I would argue the first, the group that has the opportunity but prefer the easier option (help us government).

    I would also argue the reason they do complain is because they likely know they could be doing more. A struggling family is likely not sitting around complaining about NG, worrying about house affordability, they are worrying about rent affordability, sadly no mater what happens to house prices they may never be in a position to buy.
    I understand this is the group your comments of affordability may be focused at and believing policy change may be the answer but in reality policy change may be the thing that makes there life even harder. Speculative I know but something such as scrapping NG may result in increased rent, then what?
     
  17. hammer

    hammer Well-Known Member

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    I'm at the bottom of the ladder. I have a good job, my wife has an average job and we save. We don't go out, we don't drink, smoke or gamble. We work extra hours and on weekends.

    We are going to get our first PPOR. We won't be able to buy where we like or what we like, but due to the wonders of this forum - we will be buying smart.

    Even then, it's only through some serious good fortune and help from family that this will be possible.

    The turning point for us has been the crash in Darwin. The change in affordability has been a game-changer.

    Anyway, we don't blame anything on any government...the government giveth the government taketh away...we see it as a zero sum game.

    However we really feel for those in Syd/Melbourne. I know it was hard when you guys all started out but affordability is an issue for the youth in these cities...

    Houses used to cost 4-6 times an annual salary. It is now over 10.

    This won't be an issue for the mindsets on this forum, but for the masses it is changing their wealth and the makeup of our country in a big way.
     
    Last edited: 10th May, 2016
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  18. SirDingo

    SirDingo Well-Known Member

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    Speaking exclusively about the SA market, most taxpayers in SA could clearly choose to own their own home. The majority of those who don't simply choose not to for various reasons.

    An extraordinary amount of people complain about not being able to afford to buy the house they want: a beautifully restored character home in leafy Prospect, 3km from the CBD for $1.5 million.

    However, they absolutely could afford one of the plethora of good quality established houses north or south of the city for a comparative pittance. For example, Craigmore, 28km from the CBD has very nice established 3 bedroom houses on nice blocks starting from $170,000. Even cheaper options can be found in neighboring suburbs.

    Want is not a government issue. Most taxpayers in SA could absolutely afford their own home.

    Many choose simply to complain and blame everyone else instead. Blame investors. Blame the government. That's fine with me. We live in Australia, a somewhat free country where individuals have comparative freedom and people can live however they like. That is their prerogative, their choice, and the rental market will be happier for it.
     
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  19. Skilled_Migrant

    Skilled_Migrant Well-Known Member

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    A couple of days ago, your complaint was about lack of freedom, now it is about misuse of freedom. Which one is it ? :confused:

    It appears from your post that it is not acceptable to complain about housing affordability, but ok to complain against those who are complaining against housing affordability. :confused:. As always, the blame of housing affordability rests with the victims.
     
  20. wunderwhat

    wunderwhat Member

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    I was just thinking this the other day when I was out for a drink! I was having a debate with someone and they just kept moving the goal posts when I countered their argument. I think it's just human nature + internet/media

    If it was truly the governments job to act in your best interest, shouldn't we get to go to university for a cheaper price? Cheaper public transport for those who can't afford a car? (instead they're increasing prices). Government don't care about you.