Complain or Conquer, is housing affordability really the issue?

I think you're primarily raising the issue of welfare / attitude towards working hard and saving. This is not the same as the issue of property affordability. There are always going to be people who value working harder / smarter and who will be richer for it.

The heat is on property because prices for identical properties has skyrocketed over the last 10-20 years whilst incomes / cost of living has not followed the same trajectory so hear less complaints about any other expenditure (fuel, groceries etc.).

Until the conversation switches from "I can't afford the house I want" to "I can't afford to live anywhere at all", I don't think the Government will can pull many leavers in relation to property affordability in a meaningful matter.

 

Write the blog about housing affordability &/or government policy, then it's win/win

 

Rather than distinguishing between those who work smart vs those who work hard, I personally see this topic as a distinction between those who work hard and/or smart, vs those who don't work at all (but complain anyway.)

Whether you land a $200k job out of uni or have to do a hard slog, you'll eventually reach your financial goals so long as they're realistic.

People with no drive and/or unrealistic goals (FHB wanting land near the city??) are making noise whilst treating the property market as a participation sport.

 

Actually, I look at it the other way round. Govts and parties have 2 options. Be transformative and do something meaningful because it is the right thing to do..... .......or be populist and achieve nothing other than allowing people to attack each other because Govt hasn't done its job.
I think the debate on CGT and wages and personal wealth is a true example of this.

Many of us recognise that tax benefits for investors really isn't balanced or fair......but the populist vote wins. It isn't because it is good for the country or the minority.......but it is good for us who have wealth and means.

If we are going to be honest about the debate, tax policy favours investors ......but does nothing for those who are struggling.

Politics has nothing to do with what is good for first home buyers........or what is good for the nation.........CGT and retaining the status quo is about ensuring that we, the investors, continue to be ok.

Gosh, maybe, I am becoming more of a socialist in old age.

I just want it to be fairer.........without attacking anyone.

I grew up in an immigrant neighbourhood in Sydney. I started school not knowing English. I started in the workforce being labelled. And in addition to all that, I am a woman.

I have tried my hardest to raise my children to be tolerant..........and this election cycle......regardless of countries, seems to just so disgusting to what I hold dear.

 

But times are fairer than they've ever been! As an example, women are STILL fighting for wage equality when they're paid more than they've ever been in history. Can't they just be happy with what they've got? Who cares about wage equality - women can get ahead if they just shut the hell up and work hard.

The way I see it, women can fight for wage equality (bloody complainers), or they can just get on with their lives and deal with it (conquerors).

I'm sure most of the people in this thread would agree with me, right?

Of course in doing that nothing will ever change, but at least they'll get a sick house to live in. Never mind looking to improve society overall, it's not my responsibility.

/sarcasm

 

Plenty of other countries in the world with fully functioning housing markets where the median house is roughly 2-3 x the median income rather than 8-10 or more.

It's not complaining to seek to fix this. It's actually really bad for investors too! You have a job? Then your employer must sell to customers and the more houses cost and the more private debt escalates, the less people can spend in the economy. Run out of customers with money and you too join the unemployment queue. Then how goes your investment journey?

There are multiple negatives to how housing is in Australia right now, including dollars flowing away from new businesses that will build our future and provide jobs, services and goods.

Arguably, housing is currently the most critical issue facing Australia today outside of climate change. We get it right and we can return to the median income being able to buy a house for 2-3 x their wage. Get it wrong and we're in serious trouble.

 

In order to fix something, there must first be a problem. I don't see how there is one.

You say you want to bring property from 8-10x to 2-3x, that's basically a quarter to a third of the price. So there'd be properties in Adelaide would be $50K or Brisbane for $75K. I'd buy literally all of them. Thanks

 

I'll fight you for them!!

 

Me too!!

Agree there is no actual problem. It's just that we're currently in the media-driven season where the voice of those complaining is amplified.

 

"Most people spend more time and energy going around problems than in trying to solve them" Henry Ford.

 

Huh, since when is 2-3x average wage $75k? I believe the average wage is more like $75k, so 2-3x would be $150 - $225k.


Which is ridiculously cheap and way below prices in pretty much any comparable country.

Personally I think Brisbane is actually bang on "reasonable". You can still get CBD units & really inner 2brs for under $450k here, with the odd 3 bedder.

If we're working on $75k as the average wage, 6x is pretty reasonable in my opinion given the low interest rates, etc. It would be a struggle for a single income household to do.. but I still think its doable & very doable for double income households (buy and plan your finances BEFORE breeding!)

$450k also buys a decent 3-4 bedroom house in the 'burbs, or if you're willing to go to less desirable areas (west) and or bump your commute out to more like 1-1.5 hours, that sort of money can probably even get you a swimming pool and big yard to complete the McMansion dream.

Sydney & Melbourne look ridiculously un-affordable for young people to me though. Very different markets.

 

This only applies to people with kids.

Working crazy hours is a recipe for disaster when it comes to parenting. The most important task you will ever have and the key success factor is time with kids. It is not something to be proud of, it should be a source of shame.

What is this suvivalist mentality that keeps people on level 1 of Maslow? I really don't get it.

 

Yes but you wouldn't buy all of them. And lending standards would change accordingly. A couple on $100K wouldn't be able to borrow a million.

You're also thinking in the boom mindset that those $80K properties will one day rise to $600K again - but with policies to control credit expansion, virtually eliminate speculation and end NG, the precipitous rise of the past two decades wouldn't happen again.

The investors of the US and Ireland aren't buying up all the cheap houses - don't you wonder why?

 

You're right - the most effective solution involves a combination of personal effort and government tinkering in order to address housing affordability issues in the long run.

I think that generalisations about lazy Gen Ys are overstated for the most part, with the main differences compared to Boomers being (i) Gen Ys are getting married and settling down later, and (ii) for some youth, there are legitimate and real concerns over the nature and permanency of employment that will fund their property purchases in future.

Sure, we all see uni students drinking and partying away money, but eventually family or job commitments take hold and with it (grudging) acceptance that they can only afford to live in certain areas or in certain properties. From there, if hard work ethic hasn't already started, it will arise out of necessity in order to keep ahead in life. The ones who won't put in the effort to save, or make the necessary sacrifices to their lifestyles to buy a property, will lose out.

That being said, the government will need to do what it can to make housing affordable, or at least improve amenities in far-flung areas so that half of the population isn't forced to make a 3 hour round trip each day to their unreliable contract jobs in the CBD (or other business areas where property prices are more expensive than the sticks).

And these changes will happen, eventually. Why? Arguments about market distortion, economic reality and social harmony aside, Gen X/Y will (in time) become the main demographic whose votes politicians will court. If a substantial proportion of Australian families can't (or struggle to) afford homes in the future, or face social problems from being too far out from services/jobs, there'll be louder calls for action and more drastic measures taken to respond to the issue.

It's happened before--the whole point of the Hawke and Keating was to reform the banking sector so our parents could access capital needed to buy homes--so the real question is whether these changes happen slowly (allowing everyone to adjust to the new system) or rapidly (with the financial and societal disruption that follows).

 

Another thing I don't get is why some parents work harder and spend more time away from their kids in order to send them to the best child care and private schools available.

Surely, the fundamental goal is to spend more time with your kids while they grow up, not be better at spending time away from them??

 

No, we were talking about house prices, not average wages.

 

Do you honestly believe what you just wrote? I take it your not from Australia or perhaps work in some 1950's era job where what your writing is actually true.

 

Wouldn't care if I didnt, the rent would be amazing

Because they're in dodgy neighborhoods?

You're still talking from a 'fix' perspective, for which there needs to be a 'problem' that isn't just imaginary.

Show me a job (other than porn ) where men and women aren't on equal pay.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the /sarcasm tag at the end of the paragraph means Ran Gus isn't advocating that we return to the olden days where women did nothing but house chores and preparing dinner for Father and the children...