Climate Change Performance Indicator

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Lizzie, 20th Dec, 2019.

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  1. LibGS

    LibGS Well-Known Member

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    According to most on the right, simply by prefacing any statement with "it just my opinion" makes it ok.

    So, in my opinion, I'm not attacking you, I'm "just saying how I see it"...

    We are at the 5th stage of climate change: it too late to do anything. We will keep working hard to save you, even though you don't deserve it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 12th Jan, 2020
  2. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Haven't seen any abuse and insults (well - LibS may be bordering but I get his frustration) ... so ... you acknowledge the future of humanity, and a heck of a lot of other species are under rather dire threat but your solution is to simply throw the hands in the air and say "too hard" and do nothing?

    This is despite the science, technology and will of the people already there and ready to go. I'm sorry, but I simply don't understand that way of thinking. What does need to be done is the governments of the day to acknowledge there is an issue and put in place solid foundations for private industry to build on. Do not underestimate the speed at which change can happen once the foundations are in laid. Like building a house - the build absolutely flies up once out of the ground.

    Yes, it should have started 40 years ago but it didn't and - to repeat a quote from a thread about "is it too late to invest" - it's only too late when your dead
     
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  3. Serveman

    Serveman Well-Known Member

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    Thx for your reply and I do understand your points and I have read all your posts about new technology threads and they are great. Coming up with new technologies and developing great minds that have the genius to come up with solutions and implement them is a big challenge.
    In the recent 2019 IPCC conference the 97 percent of scientists outlined the points that we are in a climate emergency and we have 12 years to fix the problem or we faced irreversible damage. That's their statement.
    Although many countries have signed the Paris agreement, the U.S. has pulled out and China is now burning more coal again and they are 2 of the largest emitters of total CO2. There are many overseas companies that have shifted production to China and they are not pulling out.
    According to the IPCC we have 12 years to rectify a 1.5 degree increase in temperature. What is the solution ?What will Australia do, what industries will we venture into that other countries will want from us that they can't do themselves. Even with solar panels, more than 80 percent are being manufactured in China and Australians are buying them over Adelaide manufactured ones due to price.
     
  4. George Smiley

    George Smiley Well-Known Member

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    I was surprised to see how well the English have done with integrating renewables into their energy mix. Good for them. I don't pretend to know much about this topic, and would like to know more, but I'm assuming generally the largest costs with renewables are all up front- they revolve around integrating them into our network which is hampered by the ever present tyranny of distance and lower tax base (compared to the UK) to draw upon. Once operational I also assume solar and wind is cheaper than conventional coal stations for operational costs (maintenance, replacements etc)?

    Anyone in the know care to clarify.
     
  5. Serveman

    Serveman Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if this is the answer you are seeking but according to Pri environment document " The UK move away from coal means they are burning wood from the US".
    The summary of the article is that 3 of the coal fired power stations were converted to burn wood instead of coal, in the form of wooden pellets from wastage, from saw mills in Virginia United States. However the author of the article states that sometimes the logging of mature trees are also involved. The biomass industry is making the case that because the trees were planted in the 1950's, that while they grew they absorbed C02 and therefore it this absorption balanced out the amount of C02 that is released when it is burnt making it carbon zero. The environmentalists and scientists have questioned this because it involves cutting the trees down which is what they were against in the first place.
    If I may add, they have to process the waste into pellets, store them and put them on trucks to transport them to the coast which then is shipped to the UK which then I believe is put on trains. It is believed that by 2025 this UK power plant will be 100 percent wood.
     
  6. LibGS

    LibGS Well-Known Member

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    No point having a surplus in an environment you can't live in. The residents of Mallacoota are sure thankful that the government is being economically prudential.

    All the answers needed are currently present, if there is no will or foresight to act, then that is a different matter. Humans aren't rational and that is part of the problem.
     
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  7. Carol M

    Carol M Well-Known Member

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    Boy what a popular (long) thread, sorry don't have time to read it all, but hope someone pointed out that all around the world western countries have been able to reduce coal use because of a reliable energy source that underpins their less reliable renewables. That is NUCLEAR. I suspect that only when we start to embrace nuclear power, like the rest of the world, will it be valid to compare our energy use to other modern nations and reduce coal.
     
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  8. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    So - what was in the news today? Because husband emailed a very similar question.

    I personally don't see a reason to go nuclear but happy to be persuaded with peer reviewed data - and considering a nuclear power plant would take around 10 years to build and bring online - and considering the massive developments in technology (that is compounding) over the last 10 years already ... How long does it take to build a nuclear plant? Another look at The Australia Institute ... there is a high chance a plant would be redundant by the time of completion

    What underpins renewables is power storage. This has been tackled in depth prior on various threads with "batteries" only being a small fraction of options ... How Energy Storage Works

    I would've thought it would be more prudent to focus research and development on the development of non-fossil hydrogen power ... Scientists find cheaper way to make hydrogen energy out of water ... or stuff like this ... Scientists Develop Liquid Fuel That Can Store The Sun's Energy For Up to 18 Years
     
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  9. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    Not too sure where this fits so rather than starting another thread, for those who focus on property investing you may have missed this. We who know the right way to invest is in shares...well. :)

    Idiotic comments aside, it is interesting Westpac's NZ arm has made a loan to Contact Energy. So what you may ask.

    The rate is discounted if Contact meets certain sustainability targets. Higher costs will apply if it doesn't meet those targets.
     
  10. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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  11. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    Trying to learn how to read tea leaves and so far it looks like:

    • PM attempting to read "The Art of Political Survival" but is having trouble comprehending essential aspects;
    • Colleagues coming to the conclusion "We're probably screwed politically so may as well fess up with what I really think."
     
  12. Serveman

    Serveman Well-Known Member

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    Well there are much bigger forces at play than the Australian government and politics is all about perception and media spin than anything else you are prepared to mention, and there is a lot political mileage being prosecuted right now.
     
  13. Ross 355

    Ross 355 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it was straight from the police commissioners mouth.so yeah.thats good enough for me.
     
  14. Serveman

    Serveman Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so Let's suggest a hypothetical that Australia continues on its current path and is impacted by heat, bushfires, drought and flood in the next 12 years to the point that things become prominent, what cities or parts of cities and regions are off your investment destination.
    On the other hand what if Australia transitioned to a green industry economy, which areas don't look good then for the investor with traditional industries shutting down for example.
    After all sentiment in property investing seems like a powerful factor in human psychology and behaviour. Will we see the population of Launceston, Hobart, Wynyard and Burnie grow at the expense of Brisbane. Are any of you thinking about this? Are you in a state of flux or is it business as usual?
     
  15. Serveman

    Serveman Well-Known Member

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    That 5th stage of climate change is not the denialism coming from the right, it's a narrative that's been prosecuted by the left with catastrophe predictions and talk of climate extinction and emergency. The stuff that is from the guardian,
    If the left tell everyone that we only have 10 years to decarbonise the planet, then off course some people respond to this and will say that it's too late. It's not feasible that the whole planet can go zero C02 scenario by 2030. Perhaps maybe if the left moderated their language and stopped the anxiety and panic theory, then countries can all make sensible and better decisions for the planet that will have the biggest positive effect. Most of the new technologies such will take 10 years to develop to the point of commercial accessibility so you have prioritise actions that give you the best improvement.
     
    Last edited: 21st Jan, 2020
  16. LibGS

    LibGS Well-Known Member

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    This post is full of deliberate misinformation and is basically gaslighting, which is a technique used by bullies and domestic abuse perpetrators to manipulate their victims by psychological means into doubting their own memory, perception, or sanity.
     
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  17. Serveman

    Serveman Well-Known Member

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    No its not. Its a reply highlighting the reasons why people react to narratives that perpetuate concepts such as climate catastrophe and emergency and has nothing to do with bullying and domestic violence. Its about trying to have a sensible, open and rationale and neutral debate. I am all for taking action on climate change that has the best benefit.
     
    Last edited: 21st Jan, 2020
  18. Serveman

    Serveman Well-Known Member

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  19. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Cap Allon is a commonly known climate denier ... who cherry picks, deliberately misinterprets and distorts data

    I guess it comes back to reading only what reinforces your existing opinion rather than challenging oneself with alternative views ... Cap Allon – Climate Feedback

    Nature is giving us plenty of warnings - ignore at our own peril - Giant Ocean Heatwave Called 'The Blob' Has Caused The Biggest Seabird Die-Off on Record
     
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  20. George Smiley

    George Smiley Well-Known Member

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    An invalid point of view at that. Here's a tip- make an effort to find out what the peer reviewed science says regarding a grand solar minimum (no more than a 0.3C cooling effect) rather than getting your info from the junk-science blogs.
     
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