Children’s TV character Fireman Sam axed as a mascot for lacking inclusivity

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by paulF, 12th Sep, 2019 at 9:53 PM.

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  1. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

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    This is beyond absurd and ridiculous.

    "A fire brigade has decided to drop beloved TV character Fireman Sam as its mascot over concerns he isn’t inclusive enough."

    Fireman Sam axed for being too male
     
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  2. Aconis

    Aconis Well-Known Member

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    Whatever happened to children especially boys needing a strong male role model?
     
  3. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

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    If they replaced Sam with a LGTBQ who is a third white, asian and black,
    That might be ridiculous enough to be PC
     
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  4. Archaon

    Archaon Well-Known Member

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    Boys are seen as Toxic and not worth helping, yet women are encouraged to be masculine, go figure.
     
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  5. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    Boys have had characters in stories, books, movies and TV shows for a long time. There are very few girls who are intelligent and independent who are not subordinate to boys. It's about time this started to change.
     
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  6. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    My female role model.

    images (2).jpeg
     
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  7. Archaon

    Archaon Well-Known Member

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  8. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

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    And do we fix that by banning male characters ? Who's stopping anyone from creating a Stacey the Firewoman show? Or should we ban that kind of character too because it's not inclusive for males too.

    Absolutely senseless no matter how you look at it.
     
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  9. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    If you read the article you quoted, they are creating a trio of characters.

    Less than 5% of firefighters are female. And as the article suggested, continuing to call them firemen creates the suggestion that it's a male only profession, making it harder to recruit more women. If replacing the fireman character makes for higher female recruitment, I don't see a problem.

    It's already damned difficult for women in male dominated professions. My daughter is in the construction industry, and every day in the office or on site is a battle with entrenched sexism. People who aren't as strong as her would not have survived. And until firefighting has more women, the same problems will continue to occur in that profession.
     
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  10. paulF

    paulF Well-Known Member

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    Creating genderless characters doesn't stop the idea of banning a character for being a male from being wrong.

    I get your point that it is hard for women to get into some male dominant professions but is there really no better way to fix this and encourage more women in to these professions other than banning the character for being a male in this instance?!

    Sexism is not a male thing, it's an individual thing and that is the problem these days, one male goes and does the wrong thing and suddenly every other males is vilified for it.
     
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  11. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    If he was Firefighter Sam there would not have been the same problem. It's not because the character is make, it's because of the job title of fireman, according to the article you quoted.
     
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  12. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

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    I'll bet people are going to complain one of the three is going to be too fat or too skinny and being a bad role model, and that it's sexist, and that it s reverse sexism, and why do we have to have a all female workplaces and why can't women have careers and have children at the same time, and are they eligible for maternity leave?
     
  13. Archaon

    Archaon Well-Known Member

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    Do you think this is due to sexism, or perhaps it could do with how physically demanding being a firefighter is?
     
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  14. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    It is demanding. But many women can handle the physical requirements. There are physical tests for people who apply to be firefighters, and it appears that the same standards apply to men as to women. But not many apply.

    Due to the physical requirements, I suspect that it will never be a 50 50 mix. But referring to firefighters as firemen is giving an image of a male only profession, which it isn't.
     
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  15. Archaon

    Archaon Well-Known Member

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    That's the issue, in pursuing diversity quotas, the entry requirements are lessened to accommodate.

    I honestly haven't heard someone refer to firefighters as firemen for some time.

    FireMAN Sam sounds as though it was selected for catchiness/brevity as opposed to any male dominance agenda.
    Fireperson or Firefighter Sam is too clunky.
     
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  16. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    Sorry, my post wasn't clear. I should have said that the same standards apply to men as to women, but not many women apply. I didn't mean that standards don't apply. Any person performing the job must be able to perform alive a minimum standard.

    The name Fireman Sam came from decades ago (1980s) when that was the accepted term.
     
    Last edited: 13th Sep, 2019 at 3:46 PM
  17. Archaon

    Archaon Well-Known Member

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    Is there a statistic to show how few women apply, and how that correlates to the term firemen being used?

    Maybe only 5% have the physical prowess and WANT to become a firefighter?
     
  18. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    In the context of this thread, it's perhaps enough to say that the term is outdated and gender specific.
    Term 'firemen' puts women off joining, says Dany Cotton | Daily Mail Online

    I don't know much about firefighters, but there is an entrenched sex bias in many professions which annoys me. Many professions could become much better if there was a more proportionate representation. Even when women are accepted, there is a high incidence of sexism
    https://www.theage.com.au/national/...re-authority-says-report-20171016-gz1szo.html - which appears to still be the case in other male dominated professions.
     
  19. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

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    some jobs women prefer, some jobs men prefer

    unless there is some incentive or need for an equal balance, we should be looking at who is the best for the job

    I dont hear many people complaining that the HR industry has more women than men
     
  20. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    A broad generalisation. While it's likely that more men than women will be interested, women who are interested should, at minimum, know that there is a career path available - and should be encouraged to apply if they are interested, and to know that sexism on the job will not be tolerated. There are certainly women who would be interested in the job.
    I agree. I'm not saying that there is a need for equal balance. I'm saying that anybody who is interested should be encouraged equally. If we are looking at who is the best for the job, we will probably find that many of them will be women. But if there is an entrenched idea that it's a male profession only, of if women are put off applying because of sexism in the industry, then we may not get all the best people for the job.
     
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