Change.org petition: make tenants reimburse tribunal costs

There is nothing to think about though. If the matter is resolved why on earth would you go to the tribunal to make a claim on your landlord insurance.

In this case, the tenant has already lost if they don't challenge it and as you said they will try to get the whole bond anyway so it wouldn't matter in relation to this thread topic about the tenant paying for expenses. Those agents should be reported anyway, that is the only fix for that problem.

Because it would be pointless to have a law to offer it as the duration is by mutual agreement anyway. Sure you may have more selection of a 3 year lease if it was generally provided as an option but landlords still have the ability to offer it now anyway.

 

No
I'm saying that I am an advocate for landlords as part of my job.

Mostly ...

 

@Skilled_Migrant I have read your posts in this thread and can't help but wonder whether you live in a parallel universe.

It is a simple agreement between a LL and tenant, pay the rent on time and don't damage the property while the LL makes sure maintenance is promptly carried out while ensuring the tenant is given 'quiet enjoyment' of the property.

My experience over many years as a LL with many different PMs differs with your experiences greatly.

Addressing your points in order:

Listing a tenant on TICA isn't as easy as you suggest and in my experience it has only been carried out in situations where tenants either abandoned one of my places, caused damage, attempted to fraudulently amend a lease after a lease break and trip to the tribunal or were evicted owing many thousands of dollars in rent.
Which was never paid.

If anything is damaged, broken or needs replacing I get it done at considerable cost with few questions asked, often things which if they occurred in my own house I would either repair myself or put up with.

The idea that insurance just pays for LLs loses is plainly wrong, the PDS of most policies can be a nightmare with exclusions and excesses payable. Generally for smaller items I don't claim as it just means a higher premium the following year.

Negative gearing is largely irrelevant here and in my personal case most of my properties are at neutral or positively geared.

Why should rents be tied to CPI? I'm sure you are not serious? Are rates, insurance premiums and maintenance tied to CPI? No.

In terms of longer leases I have had tenants request 2 year leases which I loved, the longer the better IMO. I'm flexible with this, I've got a tenant on a 4 month lease as well as this fits in with his university term. It's not in my best interest but it was the right thing to do as he will not be renewing his lease.

While I agree there would be some dubious LL and pms there are plently of 'professional tenants' who whinge, complain, don't uphold their end of the agreement and work the system.

I have had some great tenants but you also come across tenants who are going through all sorts of problems, some are just horrible.

I have had tenants evicted, one abandoned a property while another fraudulently and successfully sued our insurer, the pm and maintenance contractor's insurer. This tenant hadn't held a full time for a couple of years and had previously received a dubious payout from a government department. I feel sorry for their present LL and often wonder whether they have another scam planned.
I could say more but not on a public forum.

I have rented once, about 15 years ago, I wasn't a fan, mainly the idea of having regular inspections which do feel like an invasion of privacy so I know how tenants must feel.

Your perspective here isn't balanced in my opinion.

 

SM, if you've been a tenant 4 times and all the four times ended up in tribunal, is there something further that is relevant to your posts?

 

As a comparison, I have been a tenant 7 times in Australia and have been to the tribunal 0 times and had a bond claim 0 times.

What are you doing to have all these false claims against you?

 

Now you are asking too much. You should be happy all of your Elizabeth tenants are even paying rent @D.T.

 

• Let us put the parallel universe theory to test by a double blind experiment. Pick any university at random and talk to any random foreign student about their experiences with a REAs. Now compare the results with the other posters, who want to take the challenge.
• Now you can extend the experiment to rental experiences of people on social security payments and the recent migrants. Welcome to the desert of the real--Morpheus
  
• Still doubtful after experiences of three major tenancy demographics? have a read of the following (@Ted Varrick : Might address some of your concerns as well):

http://www.qpilch.org.au/_dbase_upl/Parity_Article_June_2015.pdf
http://www.lawreform.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/ResidentialTenancyDatabases_FinalReport.pdf
http://excelrentals.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/10-Tenancy-Database.pdf

On a theoretical basis my perspective is the most balanced as I am neither a tenant nor a landlord hence I have no conflict of interest either way. Is it possible that PMs and LLs posting here might have a conflict of interest or pecuniary considerations clouding the thoughts ?

That is exactly the point. Even if we assume both the parties are likely to offend the consequences and law are disproportionately stacked in favor of the LL. Some studies have been quoted above, remaining analysis follows.

Disagree based on analysis of tenancy act (Presumption of innocence is denied to the tenant). Presenting only NSW as a national representative, but hopefully it should be similar across other states:
RESIDENTIAL TENANCIES ACT 2010 - SECT 211 Notice of database and listing
The tenant knows about the listing only after the new landlord/agent finds the tenant listed in the database i.e. when the tenant is looking for a house without knowing that he/she has been blacklisted. The tenant usually does not know about the listing at the time the blacklisting is done.
The tenant does not have to approve the listing, the landlord/PM is only obliged (s213)to notify the tenant for 14 days prior to blacklisting and consider any submissions from the tenant.
RESIDENTIAL TENANCIES ACT 2010 - SECT 213 Further restriction on listing
Under s213(2) ibid, the landlord/PM is exempted from even notifying if the forwarding address is not known. There is enough evidence from homelessness agencies and law agencies to support that the landlords/PMs do not inform the tenants or use flimsy (cleaning, mowing) excuses for blacklisting as brought out by the earlier reports.

How about a blacklist for the dodgy LLs ?

• Fair wear and tear is to be borne by the LL, there is nothing out of the ordinary here. Ever claimed depreciation ? It is exactly the same concept.
  
• Given the 6-8 weeks waiting period before a tribunal hearing, it does appear that most LLs are not as benign as suggested. Happy to hear if waiting periods are lesser in Victoria or NSW.

• Weighing up the financials of premiums vs claims is solely LLs decision. Business based financial considerations are not tenants responsibility. If I do not want to pay the excess or the premiums, I live with the dent in the car.
  
• Unwillingness to claim a legitimate insurance from the bigger bully (Insurance Co) does not transfer the bullying rights to the LL. In reference to the OP why not have a petition to change the insurance laws, rather than tenancy laws ? Because it is easy to pick on the weaker guy.

• It is absolutely relevant here given the low yields that a median rental property has. Your case might be a statistical outlier.
• Since the costs (of litigation and loss) are transferred to the tax payer this constitutes the second risk mitigation (first being insurance) mechanism available to the LL.
  
• There is no need to pass on the litigation cost to the tenant, which has been willingly subscribed to by the LL even though, money has/can be recouped through NG and insurance.

6461.0 - Consumer Price Index: Concepts, Sources and Methods, 2011

Housing group in CPI calculation includes

• Rents
• New dwelling purchase by OO
  
• Maintenance and repair of the dwelling
• Property rates and charges
• Water and sewerage
  
• Electricity
• Gas and other fuels

Insurance is included in the Insurance and financial services.
Carpets and floor coverings are covered in furniture and furnishings

If you want we can debate on the relative weights to be allocated to the above groups and subgroups but yes, there is a mathematical possibility to calculate and include CPI as the basis of rent rises.

As pointed out by @Scott No Mates there are legal limits to having tenancy beyond 3 years. This leads to residential uncertainty amongst tenants, and there is nothing wrong in having an element of permanence beyond what is legally permissible now. It is done in other countries and it is a misrepresentation to say that it will threaten flexibility. Especially month to month lease, is an open invitation for exploitation.

Please accept my gratitude for ignoring my purported youth and inexperience and bestowing the opportunity to respond.

 

Fighting the lying bullies at the cost of foregoing a days earning and university attendance. It would have been easier to just let the bond go as my peers were doing. Or better still not pay the last month's rent.

If you are going to cast personal aspersions at least have the decency to present the holistic quote

 

Ive been a tenant 8 times and have had a few bond claims by dodgy agents when I was younger. Then I learned I can just say no and theyll accept it. Tenants can get away with almost anything if they know the system.

 

Australian landlords already have a lot more rights than in most countries. 12 years renting in London, Zurich and Barcelona I never had an inspection (although they do happen in London sometimes). Current lease in Spain states that I can leave with 3 months notice, but the owner cannot give notice in the first 3 years. In Switzerland the owner usually cant give notice at all, or even increase the rent, without a very good reason. If interest rates go down the tenant can ask for a rental decrease and it can be granted by law.

There is no security of tenure in Australia, something that most other countries have and which must horrify some foreign renters when they go to Australia, that after a year they can be asked to leave their home.

 

I see where you are coming from skilled migrant.
I totally get your view points and agree that some agents that know the system and legislation well do very much have the upper hand.

I was at a tribunal case this week over a tenant compensation case where an air-conditioner had not been fixed for six months. Tenant was entitled to compensation no dispute there. They claimed $3500 roughly $100/ week.

The member thought it was reasonable.

I provided A professional opinion that a similar house in that area without an air-conditioner would not be $100 a week cheaper.

The tenants claimed an inability to sleep at night and they said they work hard during the day and not being able to sleep impacted on their work.

The air conditioner is only in the lounge room so I asked the tenant how he is sleeping now that it's fixed. "Must be a really good air cond that really reduces the temp of the bedrooms" he replied "no it's cheap c.rap, it doesn't do anything, even the new one"

Fell strait into the ditch I put before him - thank you!

I also counter claimed some items against the bond - they left a draw unclean so I claimed 3 hours of cleaning and argued it would be unethical to get a cleaner out for a 20 minute job, need to pay them 3 hours min. The member agreed. Also claimed tenant compensation for damage to walls.

End result - $700 of compensation awarded to tenant. Out of the $3500 they were claiming.

They were entitled to compensation, yes. My job was to minimise it as much as possible for the landlord. Property managers work for the landlord. That's just the way it is.

Hoping this landlord now uses my maintenance team instead of sourcing the cheapest option possible. An installation of a faulty unit and subsequent delays in getting it fixed under warrantee is what caused this issue.

Even when landlords are in the wrong, we still represent them because that's just what property managers are paid to do.

Would he be happy with this result?

No chance, I got "stupid bloody tenants and their rights, I might as well sell it if it's going to be this hard" lol typical landlord.

Tenants represent themselves and when they don't know the laws, act emotionally "air Cond is c.rap", they just get pushed into a ditch by agents that do know the law

 

@Nick Valsamis @DaveM @HUGH72 @wylie @D.T.

Anything wrong with the humane treatment of tenants as described above ?

Surprise !!!

• The rents can be linked to CPI/interest rates even downwards.
• Laws can support tenancies beyond 3 years

Looks like the other countries are able to do it without economies falling over.

 

Just ask the Greeks.

 

Your honesty is refreshing, but then you are the rare exception. It is perfectly honest and valid reason. thanks
Everyone knows what (exploitation) happens and to the extent it happens....I do not understand the need to hide the self-interest.

 

Yeah their economy went off the road because tenants had long leases....Had nothing to do with mass tax evasion....reminds me of something else...NG, CGT, depreciation, deductions, tax structures. Lets not go there, here is the next petition...

 

Not sure who is debating this because there is nothing wrong with it if it works in those countries. Anything is possible and there are arguments for and against this, but our system also works for us too.

Of course the laws around this are different in other countries, just like taxes, welfare, education are all different. Perhaps you should also campaign for the government to provide children free lunch at schools like other countries do.

You do realise that you have now taken a simple topic into all other areas of the rental system that have nothing to do with the actual topic anymore.

 

You have quoted me from another thread here, I stand by those comments. Your assessment of LLs is very strange and isn't objective or sufficiently balanced for someone who claims to have experience rather than a purely idealogical and theoretical opinion.

In other words you have no skin in the game.

My comments are in bold text.

 

Excellent points Hugh but I'm afraid you're wasting your breath.