Can you stop paying for water to an IP?

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by KayTea, 23rd Jul, 2017.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
  1. KayTea

    KayTea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    10th Aug, 2015
    Posts:
    1,204
    Location:
    Inside my head
    Not that I need to consider this, but I was just wondering (after reading all the horror stories about tenants who just stop paying rent, and are still living in the house many months later, without repercussions).....

    Is it possible to stop paying for utilities to be provided to an IP? For example, in QLD, where the landlord pays the water bill (and then waits for reimbursement from the tenants), is it possible for the landlord to ask to have the utilities turned off?

    Theoretically, if a landlord-tenant relationship is based on a 'fee for service/provision of a product', if the tenant stops paying, then shouldn't the service/product also stop too? Why should the landlord be expected to keep paying for the property, and the water, if the tenant is not paying rent. They shouldn't just get a free ride, indefinitely. If it takes months to get them evicted, wouldn't this help encourage them to leave earlier?

    Just wondering......
     
  2. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,103
    Location:
    Sydney or NSW or Australia
    Breach them as soon as possible after the due date for payment, overdue water is treated the same as overdue rent. Submit to tribunal.

    Under the lease the owner is obliged to pay all expenses and not to jeopardize the tenancy.
     
  3. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,572
    Location:
    Sid en e - olympic city
    If you do not pay, in a lot of places they will cut off or restrict the water. It can take a long time in some places and pretty quick in others.

    It would be tempting, a PM would not do this as would be worried about too many aspects, if tenant was doing this, it would be a good wake up, but you will pay for the re connection too.
     
  4. KayTea

    KayTea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    10th Aug, 2015
    Posts:
    1,204
    Location:
    Inside my head
    But what if it's not just overdue water - if they have stopped paying for everything, but won't move out? Can you have their water supply cut off, so that they have no access to water and become more inclined to leave (quickly), rather than staying until the months-long tribunal process takes place (for which they've been living, cost free, and entirely at the landlord's expense)?
     
  5. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,103
    Location:
    Sydney or NSW or Australia
    Court order, bailiff and insurance.

    Need to seek emergency hearing at tribunal.

    This is when a good PM comes to the fore (or a very knowlegable owner.
     
  6. Pumpkin

    Pumpkin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    26th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,342
    Location:
    Brisbane
    This is made harder by the fact that the water bills arrive 2-months AFTER the meter is read! Also we are not allowed to collect Bond for water, electricity and pets. I feel for those PM who has properties with all these 'services".
     
  7. D.T.

    D.T. Specialist Property Manager Business Member

    Joined:
    3rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    9,189
    Location:
    Adelaide and Gold Coast
    SA Water won't restrict supply on a tenanted property, I've asked :(
     
  8. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    6,380
    Location:
    Qld
    Water supply is controlled by the tap at the front of the premises. Authorities can cut off a whole street, but I can't see any way that they could cut off an individual property other than at the property tap. Then anyone can turn it back on!

    This is in Brisbane, other places may be different.

    If you DID manage to cut it off in order to circumvent the correct legal process at the tribunal, you would probably be breaching more than one law! And as water supply is deemed an essential service, the tenant would legally be able to have it turned back on - at your expense! (And try arguing THAT at the tribunal!!)
    Marg
     
    KayTea and wylie like this.
  9. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,572
    Location:
    Sid en e - olympic city
    Water can be cut off or restricted, and does not matter if tenanted or owner occupied or empty.
     
  10. MyPropertyPro

    MyPropertyPro REBAA Buyer's Agents Sutherland Shire & Surrounds Business Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    1,874
    Location:
    Australia
    Water is probably the single biggest headache for property managers and landlords alike. It creates no end of problems and arrears process is a little 'softer' (for various reasons) than standard rental arrears.

    Frankly, it would be so much easier if every state followed Victoria's lead and simply had it as a usage charge direct to the tenant! For my properties there I only pay the fixed charges and the usage (if/when the tenant connects it), is billed direct to the tenant in their own name. Simples!
     
    Last edited: 25th Jul, 2017
    Stoffo likes this.
  11. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,572
    Location:
    Sid en e - olympic city
    Yes, I agree, we should write to responsible parties in regard to this.

    Just happened to finish some reconciling and surprise, surprise, am out in water payments, now to waste more time with PMs to work out where errors are or why payments missing....*sigh*

    Seems no one has a running account on software either.

    PS what is done or how does it work in VIC in regard to water compliance ?
     
  12. MyPropertyPro

    MyPropertyPro REBAA Buyer's Agents Sutherland Shire & Surrounds Business Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    1,874
    Location:
    Australia
    I don't recall exactly however I also don't recall having to get compliance certificates done. I do remember asking my PM about it. @Lil Skater will definitely know.
     
  13. Pumpkin

    Pumpkin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    26th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,342
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Agree. Cant understand why Tenants can set-up account with electricity providers but not water...... And the worst part is in Brisbane, water bills arrive 2 months after it's being read!
     
    MyPropertyPro likes this.
  14. Lil Skater

    Lil Skater Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,109
    Location:
    Melbourne
    If the property is separately metered, the water usage goes directly to the tenant. It's the landlord/agents responsibility to arrange the connection (ie. provide details) but once that's done we don't get involved at all.

    If it's not separately metered though the owner is still liable for the full cost and cannot ask for any reimbursement from the tenant. This is typically only in older units though.
     
    Stoffo likes this.
  15. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,572
    Location:
    Sid en e - olympic city
    Would the breach give you ammo ? Or only if you wanted to evict, I assume the OFT or whatever would put on some pathetic payment plan ?

    It would seem that if paying water is troublesome, maybe paying rent will be next.
     
  16. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    5,813
    Location:
    Paradise, Brisbane
    I just had an idea while reading this thread. How about all of the LLs in Qld go on strike. We would all have to do it in order for anyone to actually care.

    I say we cease paying for the water accounts to our properties. That would be 30% of the population inconvenienced and angry at the state govt if they do not pass emergency legislation forcing the RTA and the utilities providers to immediately change their billing system. Threatening a strike always works getting Ed Qld to give their teachers a pay rise.
     
    Pumpkin likes this.
  17. Stoffo

    Stoffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    14th Jul, 2016
    Posts:
    5,301
    Location:
    In the Tweed
    It is a great idea.
    Turn off water at the meter, take axe to your side severing the line :D
    The "non compliant" tenant has no water and leaves o_O
    (Though you have no idea of how this happened, you "would" look at repairs IF the tenant was up to date in payments)
    Problem solved :p
    (*Not advice)
    (I did remove the front door once, the tenants were so far behind/squating, they lasted one night and left :cool: )
     
  18. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,572
    Location:
    Sid en e - olympic city
    Hi

    I meant water efficiency compliance....
     
  19. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,572
    Location:
    Sid en e - olympic city
    I think they will be rubbing hands together at the penalty interest they will charge.
     
  20. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    6,380
    Location:
    Qld
    All well and good, but YOU are the one defaulting and getting the black mark on your credit record.

    And good luck recruiting 100% of landlords!
    Marg
     
    dabbler likes this.