Can a house be sold without money changing hands (odd family situation)

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by emza, 24th May, 2017.

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  1. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    Maybe he just likes the other daughter better?

    The fact that he won't communicate with some of the family doesn't mean he is loopy or incompetent.

    However, I think there is generally an expectation that assets are distributed fairly among siblings - according to an ABC program I heard a while ago.

    The definition of 'fair' may differ though. I have heard that it is difficult to write a child out of a will, and that it can be better to leave them something and also be very clear about the reasons they are not getting more.

    Even then, I think it can be challenged.
     
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  2. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Can the Office of Trustee & Guardian make this application if the person refuses assessment?
     
  3. Foxdan

    Foxdan Well-Known Member

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    Is your plan to contest the will after he's passed away?
    My recent experience was that contesting a will based on fairness is a waste of time. The basis for fairness is purely financial need. So if your "crazy" sister in law is in a poorer financial state that yourselves, it won't matter what the will of the deceased says, the fairness will be judged purely on comparing net worth.
     
  4. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    This is just wrong.
     
  5. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    Probably
     
  6. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    Scott No Mates likes this.
  7. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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  8. Foxdan

    Foxdan Well-Known Member

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    How so? I've consulted with barristers recently who specialise in contesting wills to contest a grossly unfair will that directed all inheritance to a granddaughter instead of the direct daughter. The primary basis for being able to contest successfully was net worth of each person and the future financial needs of each person listed in the will. Very little consideration was given to who was the carer for the deceased at all. Our legal advice was that the poorest person has the largest advantage.
     
  9. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    The poorer person probably does have a bigger chance of getting an advantage. But this is not the law, and it is not what happens in all cases. I don't even think it is what happens in the majority of family provision cases.
     
  10. pjames

    pjames Well-Known Member

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    On another variation of this..... I have heard that a lot of large families in south west Sydney areas especially often pass properties over to various families members so other members can claim centrelink etc. Some guys have several wives so one wife sells the property for $1 to another wife etc etc....
     
  11. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    What about the stamp duty. You can only have one wife but possibly could have 4 defacto so it could be duty exempt but they would have to tell Centrelink a different story
     
  12. Foxdan

    Foxdan Well-Known Member

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    My experience. Primary assessment for a successful contest for a will is based on...

    Beneficiary current assets + listed inheritance
    = total wealth.

    Add up total wealth based on above formula to compare each listed beneficiary financial status. If they all stack up similarly, you are unlikely to be able to contest the will (unless there is another circumstance that requires additional ongoing financial support).
    In the context of what @emza is experiencing. I would say that if she thinks her own "total wealth" following any inheritance is lower than the "crazy sister", then she could seek legal advice to contest a will based on financial need rather than fight the legality of the existing gifting. If the crazy sister has inherited the house early, that "wealth" will potentially assist emza in making a claim for the rest of the deceased assets. This of course assumes @emza is the "poorer" one and is a direct child - so she can make a claim regardless of what the will says.
     
    Last edited: 25th May, 2017
  13. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    There are hundreds of family provision cases many which contradict Foxdan's comments. I would suggest Emza get legal advice before making any decisions.
     
  14. pjames

    pjames Well-Known Member

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    Stamp duty on a $1 property sale would not be too much of a problem I would assume :)
     
  15. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    The law isn't as stupid as you think.
     
  16. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    It would be charged at market rates
     
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  17. emza

    emza Well-Known Member

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    He does have a mental illness.

    That aside, elder abuse has some obvious signs - and a classic is the "child moves in, suddenly large financial changes take place". What can appear to be choice is coerced.

    We can't know until an assessment has been done but believe me, if you'd seen some of the correspondence you'd conclude there was something seriously wrong happening.
     
  18. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    I had an elderly client who was physically threatened to change his will by the adult children of his defacto. They stood over him while he changed it and witnessed it. The police didn't want to take an interest at all.

    He changed it again the next day.

    But this is the sort of thing that happens.
     
  19. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, I have seen all sorts of things and had people try all sorts of stunts even on me, but the law often sucks, it does not work in a common sense or even just way many times.

    The law, as I see it, it a mechanism for all involved to extract as much money as possible.
     
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