Buying land and building houses amongst Friends

180 wide or 180 deep from the main road?

 

Dimensions are 60 frontage x 180 depth. Yes 12 has total deposit of 600k. Plus additional money for development costs.
Obvious problem is like you mentioned who will have the serviceability to fund the purchase? Idea of Trust seems good and interesting if it works..

 

60 wide less 14m with a road down the middle would mean 23m deep blocks along both sides, accounting for 6m setback to garage and 1m off back fence you would have to go custom design I feel, building envelope of 16m deep

 

Correct. My colleague owns house which is having 16m depth and looks good. I agree it wont be traditional plots having 30m depth.

 

Knocked up a quick sketch, i'm positive @lixas4 would have a much better approach to developing the block more effectively.

Roadway 14m wide (including paths etc)

Top blocks 15w x 45d

Side blocks 23d x 30w

Just about the only way I could fit 12 on the block effectively, then you have an issue where the blocks aren't uniform and it will be cheaper and nicer to build on the back 4 blocks.

The front 2 can front onto the road and have a nicer aspect as well, same as the back 2 690m2 blocks, you will still have to plan around side setbacks which is annoying.

so 4 premium, 4 ordinary, and 4 painful blocks, who will get what is bound to cause dramas.



Version 2 below

 

Those are pretty good, mine wouldnt be too different. What software are you using??

V01 above- good if the abutting landowners are looking to develop and council are wanting a road connection to them. Perhaps only one access to an abutting property could be used, and a half road used for connection for the other top lots. This design will cost more in construction costs then v02, but allows a lot layout that is more rectangular for all the lots, which is better for future house design.

V02 above - good if road network will be self contained within the subject land and no connection to abutting properties required. Court bowl may need to be larger to allow emergency services vehicles and rubbish collection trucks to turn easier, or possibly a longer T end could be used instead of a court bowl, check with engineer/surveyor/planner on the road construction requirements for your council. This design will be the cheapest to construct.

Note if you are in a growth area then council will likely want a design similar to v01, as it allows a better road network and through traffic that will set up abutting properties for future development. Court bowls/dead ends are normally frowned upon in land development growth areas, but will be the cheapest from a construction point of view.

Im on holidays at the moment so away from my computer. Will provide a construction costing estimate for v02 in a couple of days when home.

Since this is a specific site you are thinking about, i have a couple of other queries:

- is the fall to the road at the front or rear?
- is there drainage and sewerage assets available at the low point (front or rear)?
- is the road at the front fully constructed with footpath, kerb and channel? Or is it open drain/swale drain with no footpath or kerb and channel?
- is this a growth area?
- i dont know the zoning for NSW, but is it a standard resi zone? Or something else (maybe someone else can comment on the zoning requirements?)?

 

I should also add, if you can find a property that is a little wider and less long in length (while still being the same total area as the example above), you will get a cheaper and better outcome, because the lot widths/lengths will be more standard, and the road/services construction costs will be less.

 

If the OP jumps on Welcome to the NSW Planning Portal | Planning Portal - Department of Planning and Environment and punches in the address, there will be an option for zoning and also for minimum lot size, they will be key factors in determining whether the subdivision is viable.

@lixas4 the program I am using is Sweethome3D, absolutely free shareware, loving the program currently.

 

Thanks @Archaon and @lixas4 for your inputs.
Zoning is RU4 and no sewer connection available.That may change since it is near Western Sydney Aerotropolis.
- is the fall to the road at the front or rear? : Front
- is there drainage and sewerage assets available at the low point (front or rear)? : No Sewer. only water connection.
- is the road at the front fully constructed with footpath, kerb and channel? Or is it open drain/swale drain with no footpath or kerb and channel? : Open drain with no footpath or kerb. Typical rural type.
- is this a growth area? Yes

 

Unless the overlay that I suggest says otherwise, sounds like a non-starter in RU4.

You will have to ring Hunter water to see how far away the sewer is.

 

We thought developers applied for rezoning whenever they wanted to develop. If thats not the case we messed up there.
This is what shown on planning website.



This comes under Sydney Water. Sewer main pipe is atleast 3-4 kms .

 

Better get your basic metrics right 1 acre is only 64m x64m

 

I said we are planning to get 1-1.5acres. But this property suits our budget and is around 1 hectare and nothing is finalized. Hopefully this clarifies.

 

1. The land is not zoned for more than one residence.
2. You will be borrowing at a very high % if there are so many of you.
3. Land is not subdivisable if it is RU4.
4 My experience is that 40% of developments lose money, 30% break even, 30% make money unless you have an edge that others don’t ie wholesale home builder, family builders, wholesale money lenders, etc. what is your catch that will make you money?
5. If there is profit to be made a developer or land banker with millions in the bank would have bought it. They see them before they hit the market.
6. A professional viability study costs $50-80,000 and you would not dream of starting a development without one.
7. Your fees to council are usually about $60k a site.
8. Roads, footpath, water, power, electricity, phone, sewer, drainage, NBN are about $100k a site Assuming all are on the boundary.
9. No one would take you seriously, with such a small amount saved and no one lends money for subdivision development much under 14% per annum.
Unfortunately there are fatal errors that would wipe out your savings. The simple rule of thumb is that if it could be done there are thousands of people with millions in the bank looking for investments that make A little over 5% on their money. But only 40% of developments do. But until you complete the development, you don’t know which ones they are.

 

Hi @Y-man, repost this question in the development section, there are a couple of vic planners on here who will answer. I'll add my two bobs worth aswell.

 

Thanks . As per your point 1 & 3, we cannot proceed. In Box hill some properties was RU4 and then the properties across road had R2 zoning. Hence we assumed it can be converted. Ours was not in box hill though.

We knew the risk, that's why we wanted to engage a development manager who has prior experience. We never wanted to do ourselves.
We are not doing this for selling, but creating a small community living for our friends circle.
Lots in Sydney's new estates are 250 - 300 sqm and its very hard to get . So we thought of doing it with help of a Development manager.Here's a cost breakup idea we had. Its a rough idea.

2Mil :Site costs
100k : Stampduty
600k : Development costs ; 50k * 12
600k : Tax and other costs : 50k *12
600k : Development manager cost : 50k * 12
500k : Buffer

Around 350k-400k Per site.

250K : Construction for house. Since 12 houses, we expect 250k can be negotiated.


Total : 650K per house.

 

Hi Vishh, to not understand the basics of planning is a bit of a worry. I would be taking a step back from your idea, and getting educated before deciding if you want to proceed.

Im a member of a development group run by rob flux, and there are other groups out there aswell. Its a great way to learn, and they also do mentoring etc. Which is what you need, if you dont know the basics then you will likely be taken advantage of or get into something you shouldn't, even with a DM.

 

You cannot build 2 houses on the ru4 sites in Box Hill either. The term transition means a visual transition between residential properties and large expanses. It is generally the old fashioned one house on 5 acres. It is not what some unscrupulous vendors are saying “ buy now and it will transition into residential zoned land” This is a deliberate lie, it has already been rezoned and the new zoning is RU4. It will not be rezoned again and you cannot build two or more seperate dwellings on it, in Box Hill or anywhere in NSW.
The difficulty in your scheme is that no council will allow the construction of 3 or more homes on land that is not zoned for 3 or more homes.
The value of correctly zoned land is about $200,000 per raw site.
Raw means each block, without roads, approval or services.
Generally another $200,000 in costs goes to make a raw site a Serviced block of land, ready to build on that can be sold and that is why most land on the outskirts of Sydney is in that $380-$480,000 starting price per block of land once developers margin is added in.
The Loan cross collateralization of the parcel you intended would mean that one party could be ill and not work, or pass away and all of you would be sold up to satisfy that one parties loan.
The loan would be at a minimum of about 14% per annum interest.

My twins devised a similar scheme in their teens.
The two bought a home unit that was in line for demolition as the block was underdeveloped. Ie 3 stories when neighbours were 30 stories. They bought for about $200k at 18 after 3 years P/T wk and borrowing $140k From the bank with dad going guarantor. They sold at $1,560,000 to a developer building a tower block, within 10 years. This paid off all their loans on all their other investments. One Is semi retired at age 30 and is studying science at uni. The other is now an international high flying business exec living in Low Taxing Asia.