Bullet trains

Is there any reason why people in Brisbane need to get to Melbourne so frequently and fast?

And why do they need to stop off in Canberra?

Why not leave Brisbane and stop at Coffs Harbour (sample some breakfast and bananas), then Newcastle (for lunch), Sydney (consultant stop), Wollongong (Industrial stop), Canberra, (for those who are bored and cant take any more), Albury/Wodonga (dont know, but it seems appropriate...), then Melbourne.

Whilst the tourist route is arguably more enjoyable, isn't it cheaper to fly?

 

why not traveling to Sydney everyday? that is much better and less chances of sitting with weirdos too

 

It would be way more than an hour to Canberra. There would be the slow slog through Sydney to the edge of the city - perhaps even a train change there. Then there would be the fast bit. I bet Goulburn would do everything it could to have a stop there, so that would add a lot to the travel time. Then there would be the stop outside Canberra and a transfer into the city.

 

The bullet train idea was mooted in the 1980s, linking Melbourne to Sydney. This was a time when the combined population of the 2 cities was just around 5 million people. It was also a time when Japan was the only country in Asia that has such an infrastructure. China then was still a very improvised country, while countries like Korea, Malaysia and even Singapore were still classified as "Third World"..

Now more than 30 years later, China already has a very sophisticated Bullet train system. Even Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia are already starting to build their own versions of "Bullet Train" either linking to one another or within their own countries.

Australia on the other hand, is still "discussing" the feasibility of such a transport system. This is despite the fact that the combined population of the 2 biggest cities has grown to almost 10 million and the air route between them is the 5th busiest In The World! If we were to add the population of the other cities like Canberra, Wagga Wagga, Albury, Shepparton etc straddled in between them, we can add at least another 1 million people to the above figure. And this is just the figure now.

The Rail Minister of Chia once famously said that "it takes a generation of Chinese sacrifice to better the lives of The future generation"

Building a Bullet train is not just about ferrying people from one place to another, it will bring about changes in social mobility and economic structure in a way Australia has never seen before. Imagine if one can reach Melbourne city from Shepparton in 30 mins, wouldn't staying in Shepparton make more sense?

 

The reason this isn't built has nothing to do with density and the boring excuses that are often made for not building rail infrastructure in this country. The Sydney to Melbourne air corridor is one of the busiest in the world. Canberra is also quite busy - I think Qantas has hourly flights there from Melbourne on weekdays.

A train (it doesn't need to be an OTT Maglev or anything like that, even one that is like 180km/h or thereabouts which technically isn't even true "high speed rail") would absolutely bankrupt the overpriced domestic airlines in Australia. The govt is just protecting their corporate (monopoly) interests.

In Europe, airlines are pricing themselves cheaper than trains and still can't compete - even when the flight might save an hour or two. Trains are seen as far more comfortable and convenient than planes even in these scenarios. We took the high speed train from Paris to Barcelona a few years back and it was packed. The train takes six hours compared to two for the flight. Not having to wait around in the airport or worry about getting to/from the city is priceless.

Unfortunately we live in a country that is quite a backwater in this respect so I doubt proper electrified rail would even ever happen, let alone anything more advanced than this.

 

Sounds like there is an opportunity for bullbar makers to help alleviate the wildlife awkwardness that might occur at such speeds....

 

There are enough people travelling between east coast capitals to justify a train.
But...

• At 180kmh it would take at least 4 hours mel-syd, probably more like 6. Going CBD to CBD 4hrs would be ok, and almost compete with flights, but that's not what most people do. A true fast train would be a much better option.
• A train would make one or two trips a day (initially at least). That's just not flexible enough for most travellers and can't compete with flights every 30 -60 minutes. Business travellers in particular need flexibility and a good chunk of travel is for business.
• Domestic airlines in Australian are not expensive. A train, initially at least would be more expensive.

So the govt is not protecting their corporate interests.

It's just a non-starter at this stage. Given it would take at least a decade to link the east coast by high-speed trains I don't see why the govt couldn't get the ball rolling, given populations of those cities are expected to swell over the next few decades. Why not start with high-speed rail to commutable areas from Bne/Syd/Mel then have a grand plan to link the cities?

Back to a lot of travel is for business and a lot same day travel. A business woman is not going to get a train over a plane from Paris(Sydney) to Barcelona(Melbourne).

 

A four hour train between Sydney and Melbourne would kill the flight route unless we are talking about extremely important business people. The time saving once you include travelling to/from the airport (including cost of cabs), going through security and waiting time, possible delays etc will be one hour at the absolute most, probably closer to 30 minutes. I doubt too many would opt for the inconvenience of flying to save half an hour.

 

But it wouldn't be 4 hours between Sydney and Melbourne. It won't travel at speed until it's at the edge of each city. So that's a slow trip through Sydney especially and perhaps a transfer. Then there will be the stops enroute - Goulburn perhaps, Canberra for sure, Albury? Shepparton?
I can see an advantage in getting between some of the regional centres more quickly than by car, but how much demand will there be? And if there are not frequent trains, business travellers won't be interested.

 

The regional stops don't need to be included on every train. They could have 1-2 trains a day that go to those stops and the rest of the trains can be express.

The 1800s style trains that currently go between Sydney and Canberra (which no one really uses) run three times a day in each direction. If you added up all the plane passengers on this route and all the Murrays and Greyhound coach passengers (these companies have multiple buses leaving each hour, as many as 5-6/hour during very popular times) plus a big proportion of the people that drive, I think 7-8 trains a day each way could be very easily justified if the travel time was say 1.5-2 hours rather than the 4 it is now.

 

Very few people travel CBD to CBD. The cost and time to get to airport/train station would be similar for most.

Build it and they will come!

 

Why would anyone need to travel from Sydney to Melbourne airport? The train goes to the CBD (Southern Cross station for Melbourne; Central station for Sydney) and people can get connections from there. That's how most long distance trains run all around the world - they don't go to suburbs.

 

Draw up a master plan then start...

Get the work done so a train can be at the outer burbs and outer outer burbs within a jiffy. Then build from there. No need for transfers.

At first it will be regional stops

 

That's right - its not like they're talking about a train travelling at 300 kmh between Syd Central and Bourke St Mel. It could probably only travel fast between the city limits. What's the benefit of that?

A game changer would be a VFT from regional centres like Wollongong, CC, Newcastle etc into the heart of Syd or Mel. Probably a pipe dream.

 

The Shanghai Maglev train is 430km/h and that is only a tiny stretch of rail that just goes to the airport. It would be ridiculously priced to build something like that as a long distance travel option. I believe it cost about $1 billion and that's with China labour costs

The technology used by the Acela Express on the US east coast could be a good option but that's even probably too advanced for us. Wouldn't hold my breath

 

It may/may-not be fast trains but this is the sort of bold stuff I expect our govts to do. The modern political climate means they don't.

 

What is the pay back period for highways? At least you get something back with trains