Builder Inclusion Or Contractor (Perth WA)

Discussion in 'Development' started by Eddytaddy, 8th May, 2020.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
  1. Eddytaddy

    Eddytaddy Member

    Joined:
    1st Aug, 2018
    Posts:
    17
    Location:
    Perth
    Hi,

    I am new to building cf buying established.

    Seeking some advice on issues eg lighting, flooring, painting kitchen appliances etc:
    Is it more sensible to pay the builder for extra inclusions, or better to source independent contractors for each job? Would that be any differences for OO and IP?

    The builder is B1 Homes. And time to source for contractors is not an issue.

    Thanks everyone :)
     
  2. Big Daddy

    Big Daddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    25th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    984
    Location:
    Perth
    Builders have a markup but by sourcing yourself you loose your time and potential income as you won't be able to start those finishing jobs until handover.

    I know at least 2 successful people who only get the builder to lockup stage(bricks, windows and roof) and get their own trades to finish with their own fittings including all cabinetry and flooring. They usually bring in everything in containers from China and sometimes windows and doors as well.
     
    charttv likes this.
  3. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

    Joined:
    13th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,517
    Location:
    Perth
    Personally somethings I find better to leave under builders control for chain of custody with warranty work, for example I want the builder to do waterproofing and laying of tiles so if there is a leak down the track that they controlled those works and they can't say it was my tiler who caused it.

    Some things are easy enough to do post handover but if time is of the essence then having the builder do it during construction you can save a lot of money.

    Nine times out of 10 I find the wholesales rates + builders mark up does still cost me less than doing it myself. Plus if it's in the construction contract then it's easy to get the bank to pay for it vs using my cash at the end.

    Things I sometimes arrange myself
    - window coverings
    - floor coverings - vinyl, carpet
    - feature light fittings - ie kitchen pendants but I get the builders electrician to install
    - landscaping
     
  4. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    20,384
    Location:
    Sydney or NSW or Australia
    Include those items in the provisional sums and ensure that the allowances for appliances etc are realistic ie Westinghouse stove model XYZ $X,000

    Ensure that the PC sums are adjusted as a lump sum not individually so any savings balance out overruns.
     
  5. Eddytaddy

    Eddytaddy Member

    Joined:
    1st Aug, 2018
    Posts:
    17
    Location:
    Perth
    Thanks for your awesome replies.

    Initially I wanted to source contractors myself. I have now reconsidered to get builder to include painting, kitchen appliances, lighting.

    The only two things I will do it myself would be split system air-con and flooring.

    My concern about flooring is the quality the builder uses. I prefer to get a reputable company to do the flooring which can rest my mind, and do it at a lesser cost. I heard horrific stories about bad quality floorings by builders, due to rushing on work, and not letting the moist content of the slab stabilise before putting the flooring on.

    About painting
    I also read the painting should only be done after the moist content of the plaster dries completely dry. Did anyone have any issues with the builders re painting? like rushing in painting that sort of problems? Is painting anyhow covered in warranty generally?
     
  6. Mark F

    Mark F Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    29th Jan, 2020
    Posts:
    584
    Location:
    Canberra
    Re the issue of allowing moisture levels to stabilise and surfaces to be properly prepped - I have always shuddered when I watch so called professionals on tv renovate a house in under a week.
     
    Stoffo likes this.
  7. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

    Joined:
    13th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,517
    Location:
    Perth
    Painting and plasterwork is an issue in Perth. There has been some issues with the chemical make up of Perth plaster which has resulted in paint peeling off but this should be handled under warranty. There can also be issues with builders telling their painters to paint when there is too much moisture still in the plaster. If you are concerned they may rush it then buy yourself a moisture meter and test the plaster when the painter is due. A good painter will test it and refuse to do it if it's too wet but unfortunately some builders will tell them to fork off and paint it or be sacked.

    I have a good vinyl plank + carpet supplier and installer if you want to get a quote from them. Vinyl planks in an IP are a great choice

    Here's one I completed recently with the vinyl planks

    [​IMG]
     
    charttv and Scaphella like this.
  8. Big Daddy

    Big Daddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    25th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    984
    Location:
    Perth
    It's easier to let the Builder to install air con if it's 2 story or more so they can plan for return air grills and ducting. Or it can be done together with the builder an your air con guy liaising.

    What I and others did was to price those inclusions into the contract eg painting 5k, air con 10k,. Cabinetry 40k and get the bank loan for the whole amount but then pull those items out (after agreeing with builder) and use that cash to source the trades yourself. Most builders won't do this but as the market is slow then you will find a few that will but this must be agreed at the start.
     
  9. Eddytaddy

    Eddytaddy Member

    Joined:
    1st Aug, 2018
    Posts:
    17
    Location:
    Perth
    My builder B1 Homes is only providing Ducted Air con, but I only need split system. So that's ok.

    Yes please for the flooring reference. I have ZERO knowledge in building. I wouldn't even know how to argue for my case if anything goes wrong with painting (also ignorant to how to inspect painting quality). Would you advise me to source my own painter in that case? Do you have a good painter to refer?
     
  10. Big Daddy

    Big Daddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    25th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    984
    Location:
    Perth
    Use the builders painter. If the paint job is crap the painter will blame the plaster and visa versa.
     
    Westminster likes this.
  11. Eddytaddy

    Eddytaddy Member

    Joined:
    1st Aug, 2018
    Posts:
    17
    Location:
    Perth
    Sorry if this is a silly question. What would happen then when things go wrong? Will they fix it, or will they blame each other, putting me in a sticky position (eg, need to complain to build commission or other legal route etc)?

    Will engaging a construction inspector (eg, Houspect) prevent the problem? Will inspector be able to pick up substandard plastering work, and demand the builder to fix before putting paint on?

    Sorry for my ignorance. Really appreciated any input.

    PS: I have just put in an offer for the land. So I really want to educate and prepare myself before the building process actually starts.
     
  12. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

    Joined:
    13th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,517
    Location:
    Perth
    You should use the builders painter for the continuity of warranty and to stop the builder blaming your painter and your painter blaming the builder like @Big Daddy said.

    Regarding the air conditioning - if the builder is providing ducted why would you downgrade to a split? Consider future resale to people who will appreciate a ducted system and not want to put in extra split systems to air condition the rest of the house.

    Can I ask why you have chosen B1 homes? Join the facebook group called WA Shonky Builders and you'll get a lot of information about what big builders try and get away with.
     
    Stoffo likes this.
  13. Eddytaddy

    Eddytaddy Member

    Joined:
    1st Aug, 2018
    Posts:
    17
    Location:
    Perth
    Noted for this one. Will use builder painter if there is a continuity. Hence explains my further question to Big Daddy to clarify what would happen if I use builder painter.

    I have checked around and found that split system is more energy efficient for a small unit. (the build is around 140sqm) And it is more attractive for potential tenants too. It also leave potential of manufacturing equity down the track when come to the time to resell the property.

    I have joined WA Shonky Builders, hence I am scared of substandard slab/flooring and plaster/painting. I chose B1 homes based on the price and the floorplan which suit the best to my need (the land wasn't a nicely square one). I do realize B1H is not the best builder, but I am prepared to take a chance with engaging a Houspect inspector.
     
  14. Eddytaddy

    Eddytaddy Member

    Joined:
    1st Aug, 2018
    Posts:
    17
    Location:
    Perth
    @Westminster

    I haven't signed the contract with the builder.

    In the contract, what should I put on the wall specification? ie. what is the professional term for the "proper plaster" to replace the "white set plaster'?

    Very appreciated for your kind advice.
     
  15. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

    Joined:
    13th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,517
    Location:
    Perth
    Having an inspector is a good move, how many inspections will you get?

    Builders must build to the Australian Standards and so you shouldn't need to specify anything about plasterwork. Houses in Perth either have white set plaster to australian standards or some builders line the brick walls with gyprock as their preferred method - the majority use white set plaster.

    If there are disputes then it goes to the building commission but generally having an inspector and reports will give the builder a shove to do it properly and/or fix it.
     
  16. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

    Joined:
    13th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,517
    Location:
    Perth
    Split systems are economical in that you are effectively creating a single zone and you can turn it on and off. Most ducted systems however have zones and an inverter motor that uses less power when you turn the unwanted zones off. A single split system couldn't do 140sqm it handles one area well, so if it's in the living areas it will do that well but might not get to the master bedroom. If I'm building an IP with split systems then I will put one in the living area and one in the master bedroom and the minor bedrooms will remain quite hot. For that reason ducted is better and I will put in for a 4 bedroom place or higher spec 3 bedroom place as it's cheaper to go ducted than get 3 split systems
     
    Patrico1966 likes this.
  17. Eddytaddy

    Eddytaddy Member

    Joined:
    1st Aug, 2018
    Posts:
    17
    Location:
    Perth
    @Westminster Thanks mate. Really appreciative of your kind input.

    re the inspector, it will be a 5-stage construction inspection. For a newbie like me, wouldn't skip any stage of inspection.

    re the air con, ducted air-con is quite energy consuming I believe. And also when it breaks (due to tenant overuse, or misuse), it costs more to repair as well. It will be a 3 bedroom house, hence 1 in living area and 1 in master bedroom is what I plan for.
     
  18. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    20,384
    Location:
    Sydney or NSW or Australia
    AC is the most efficient of all heating/cooling systems. Compare the efficiency with gas or oil or oil column heater or radiant heater (no cooling). A swampy box has no heating and only works well in areas of low humidity (but it is efficient).