Broker clawback- is it legal?

Discussion in 'Loans & Mortgage Brokers' started by RoadRunner, 21st Jan, 2021.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
Tags:
  1. RoadRunner

    RoadRunner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    3rd Dec, 2018
    Posts:
    76
    Location:
    sydney
    Is it legal for broker to clawback commission from client?

    - Broker did not pay any cashback to me at the beginning of loan.
    - I signed the clawback clause as I anticipated loan to last more than 2 years. But situation has changed now. I must refinance and don’t want to go through same broker.

    This clause is restrictive as I am stuck with same broker.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    24th May, 2017
    Posts:
    10,323
    Location:
    Australia
    Cashback is different and nothing to do with this. This is clawback of the commission paid from the lender to the broker. Which the broker might have to pay back if you refi within two years with another broker.

    You signed it you buy it.

    Why must you refinance and why cant you use the same broker?
     
  3. Lindsay_W

    Lindsay_W Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    5,058
    Location:
    QLD/Australia Wide
    Why?

    The thing is, that broker will get their commission clawed back from the lender instantaneously, the bank doesn't request it, they just take it. So they did the work for you, put their time into the application and got you the loan - do you expect them to do it for free?
     
    Last edited: 21st Jan, 2021
    Silverson likes this.
  4. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,224
    Location:
    Sydney or NSW or Australia
    The broker's situation hasn't changed, you are obliged to pay the clawback as you haven't fulfilled your agreement to hold the loan for 2 years (or refinance through them).
     
    Silverson, jared7825 and Lindsay_W like this.
  5. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    23,504
    Location:
    Sydney
    Changes to credit laws now limit (prevent aftre 1 January) some clawbacks being incurred by the borrower through fees and charges. The repayment obligation arrangement is one between the broker and aggregator NOT the consumer. In respect of the consumer the new law is as follows :

    (c) the consumer must not be subject to an obligation to pay an amount as a result of an amount being required to be repaid under the repayment obligation.
    Financial Sector Reform (Hayne Royal Commission Response—Protecting Consumers) (Mortgage Brokers) Regulations 2020


    You may wish to seek advice. AFCA may offer guidance on credit law reforms and their imapct on a consumer if you feel misled. You could ask the broker about this too since they must provide honest factual guidance. Prior agreements may be struck out by this law reform. Find out.
     
  6. Lindsay_W

    Lindsay_W Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    5,058
    Location:
    QLD/Australia Wide
    It's a bunch of BS written by a guy who had no idea what he was on about and in bed with the Banks. The Lender should not be allowed to claw back commissions, name any other industry where this happens
     
    Silverson, Peter_Tersteeg and MC1 like this.
  7. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    41,917
    Location:
    Australia wide
    I have seen some clients who had signed these clawback contracts (usually not understanding) with them promising to paid a sum up to 3 years after the original loan was taken out - well after the broker would get a clawback from the lender.

    These sorts of agreements would likely be unenforceable. Seek legal advice.
     
    Lindsay_W likes this.
  8. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

    Joined:
    14th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    10,629
    Location:
    Gold Coast (Australia Wide)
    Not a lawyer, but snowballs.

    We have clawback agreements in place for some transactions pre Jan 1 2021.

    If a client of mine refused to pay and went the AFCA route, they would also be asked for recovery of the 3 to 5 cost levied on the broker - even if they find in the favour of the broker.

    Suspect this would a simple QCAT matter of a contract dispute with laws at the time of the agreement.

    Most of the time where there is a clawback applied it is due to the borrower chasing a comm rebate or lender refi rebate or both, thus gaining financial advantedge at the loss of the broker.

    As an aside, we havent yet had a client refuse to pay.

    Where the clawback is as a result of some poor client circumstances such as financial hardship etc we obviously wont bill them, but where someone has made 200 k on a development, we are entitled to be paid for our work as is anyone that contributed to that profit

    ta
    rolf
     
  9. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

    Joined:
    14th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    10,629
    Location:
    Gold Coast (Australia Wide)
    Broker friend of mine had an 18 K clawback a few years back

    Agreement in place.

    Group of HNW investors at QCAT claimed - we are simple people and didnt know what we signed

    30 second ruling .................in favour of the broker

    As an aside, a clawback clause is only if the broker suffers financial loss due to a clawback.

    Some lenders did actually have 3 year clawbacks, and then also asked the client to pay a deferred establishment fee of up to 2 % to boot :)

    The old RAMS now RHG I recall was one of those

    ta
    rolf
     
    Terry_w likes this.
  10. Sanka

    Sanka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30th Jul, 2021
    Posts:
    273
    Location:
    Sydney
    Just heard from cba these clawbacks from broker to consumers are officially illegal now. Any views on this statement?
     
  11. Lindsay_W

    Lindsay_W Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    5,058
    Location:
    QLD/Australia Wide
    Been that way for quite a while now
    Banks can still clawback the broker though.
    Another win for banks, another blow to brokers.
     
    Silverson likes this.
  12. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,159
    Location:
    03 9877 3000
    My general view is never rely on a bank for advice concerning brokers.

    As previously discussed in this thread, brokers are not allowed to charge a clawback fee (or anything that might look like a clawback) since 01/01/2021.
     
    boganfromlogan and Morgs like this.
  13. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    41,917
    Location:
    Australia wide
    why would CBA be telling you that?
     
  14. Sanka

    Sanka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30th Jul, 2021
    Posts:
    273
    Location:
    Sydney
    Looking at transferring a loan across to them.
     
  15. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    41,917
    Location:
    Australia wide
    they shouldn't be giving you legal advice!
     
    Silverson likes this.
  16. beachgurl

    beachgurl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,320
    Location:
    Sydney
    A broker can uphold any claw back documents you signed with them for loans that settled prior to 1 January this year and you are still in the claw back period. While clawbacks can still occur, a broker is not allowed to pass that onto a client if the loan settled after that date.
     
  17. Lindsay_W

    Lindsay_W Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    5,058
    Location:
    QLD/Australia Wide
    Not according to my aggregator, no clawbacks for clients, regardless of when the loan settled.
     
  18. Lindsay_W

    Lindsay_W Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    5,058
    Location:
    QLD/Australia Wide
    Don't you think they have a vested interest in BS'ing you?
    Why CBA?
    Why not use a broker?
     
  19. Sanka

    Sanka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30th Jul, 2021
    Posts:
    273
    Location:
    Sydney
  20. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    41,917
    Location:
    Australia wide

Build Passive Income WITHOUT Dropping $15K On Buyers Agents Each Time! Helping People Achieve PASSIVE INCOME Using Our Unique Data-Driven System, So You Can Confidently Buy Top 5% Growth & Cashflow Property, Anywhere In Australia