Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community

Blood tests, who does them?

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by Zos, 17th Aug, 2015.

  1. Zos

    Zos Active Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    38
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Who out there gets blood taken and checks where he/she is with hormones etc..

    I spent a great deal of time researching hormone levels and optimal readings.. Long story short at the end of it all you really find out how little these so called specialists know (mainly referring to Endo's) don't want to offend anyone if they are an endocrinologist but the ones I dealt with (5+) were as good as a water proof teabag.

    Anyway one thing that gets overlooked at in males is hormone deficiency in my opinion in Australia and a lot over the world except the USA which is ahead in this. Lets make one thing clear being in normal range does not mean optimal.

    For example testosterone readings in males range from 6-30 nmol/l. If you are 80 or 17 and have the same reading of 8, one can clearly see the obvious they are both in range but one is not optimal at all.

    But most doctors see you in range and that is it, even if you poses symptoms that should be looked at.

    So I am wondering who in here has had these tests done and monitors them for the males out there?

    Cortisol
    TSH
    Ft3
    Ft4
    Anti TPO (if thyroid issue)
    Anti TG (if thyroid issue)
    Testosterone
    Free Testosterone
    LH
    FSH
    Estradiol
    Vitamin D
    B12
    Iron
    C-reactive protein (this is the dangerous one if present over a long period of time)
    Hematocrit
    Cholesterol (Not the big killer made out to be, pharmaceutical companies absolutely killing the profits with drugs for this scam)

    If this topic gathers interest will share some thoughts and findings with you as we go along.
     
  2. Mombius Hibachi

    Mombius Hibachi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    492
    I go to Dr. Acula. He's fantastic, I can give you a referral if you like.

    Only problem is he keeps strange hours - from dusk to dawn only. Says it's to appeal to the 'night owl crowd' but I suspect it's a little more complicated than that.

    Testosterone levels in males have dropped sharply over the last 50 years or so. Guess why? Diet.
     
    Last edited: 17th Aug, 2015
    Azazel likes this.
  3. Coota9

    Coota9 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    970
    Location:
    Melbourne
    After having surgery 12 days ago to remove a prolactonoma which is a benign tumour of the Pirtuarty gland I can say I have had every form of hormone test known to man in the months prior and the few days post surgery.
    My endocrinologist has been absolutely fantastic and I return to her in a few weeks to see if my Pirtuarty gland is doing its job and my hormones levels are all up to normal.
    Also many people have these type of tumours of the Pirtuarty gland which affect hormone level but they are normally only discovered during MRIs when looking for other issues etc
     
  4. Zos

    Zos Active Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    38
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Maybe in some cases, other cases could be shift work, stress, sleep issues, underlying issues....
     
  5. Mombius Hibachi

    Mombius Hibachi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    492
  6. citystar

    citystar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    167
    Location:
    QLD
    I get blood work tested every twelve months as a way of picking up any sudden changes. A few things that run in the family to be on the look out for.
     
  7. Zos

    Zos Active Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    38
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Glad you found a good doctor not easy to come by at all. Good luck with the outcome hope it works out.
     
  8. Coota9

    Coota9 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    970
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Thanks Zos..recovery is going ok
     
  9. Bran

    Bran Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    3,220
    Location:
    At work
    Absolutely not.

    But I'm interested in what you consider "a great deal of time" and how this compares to an endocrinologist. What is your training, and your qualifications to justify your opinion? (After all it differs from 5 specialists, all equally useless).

    Does your good 'doctor' have a solution for every deficiency they have identified? I bet they do. Lucky for you!
     
    Last edited: 17th Aug, 2015
  10. spludgey

    spludgey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    683
    Location:
    Sydney
    When I read the title of this thread, I thought this was going to go down a different road... ;)
     
  11. Zos

    Zos Active Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    38
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Great deal of time was constantly over a period of approximately 3 years researching on various forums and reading studies that were performed by accredited institutions NOT BY ME.

    Just because I have no medical qualifications does not mean one cannot educate themselves on medical issues. After all, it is the most vital asset you own and one would question why some people would just leave it to a stranger (doctor) to have the same interest as yourself when it comes to your body.

    I call these doctors that I was not impressed with rubbish because the tests they performed came back poorly for me yet they had no friggin clue what to do next. One doctor said to me I don't know what to do with you. I can see an issue but I have no idea. Awesome specialist good to know he got his qualifications and knows jack all.

    Another doctor just looked at the ranges, everything was within the so called normal range and you are good to go. Anyone off the street can do that.

    In my experience Urologists were a little better than Endo's. A switched on GP is probably even better these switched on ones are also hard to find. Ones that actually care and take the time with you not the ones that see 50 clients a day and only see $$$.

    The doctor that basically worked with me and helped me the most and actually cared was by surprise a Sexologist. I went in to see this doctor purely for hormone reasons and right away you could see this doctor knew their stuff.

    Trust me after researching as much as I did you can tell pretty quick who know's their stuff and who does not.

    I was also prescribed a statin for elevated cholesterol levels. Got the script and threw it in the bin. Not the best drugs in the world if you look into them, but a lot of people have high cholesterol levels and it is an awesome money spinner and the doctors get kick backs for every script they write out, so why not.

    Did I hit a nerve? I get he feeling I did.
     
    Perthguy and Brian84 like this.
  12. Bran

    Bran Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    3,220
    Location:
    At work


    Sounds like you had a specific problem - this is different from a fishing expedition.

    Doctors do NOT get kickbacks from writing any scripts. But statins are over prescribed.

    Id be happy to see your scientific basis to justify said tests as a screening tool.

    No nerve, but your comment about how little a specialist knows (compared to your own forum trawling research) warranted a response. Feel free to post the abstracts of any study to support the role for those tests in screening and I'll happily peruse.

    Why not start with CRP?
     
  13. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    4,718
    Location:
    Perth
    It's been a while but I had some tests done last month. Not as comprehensive as yours but some including Cholesterol, iron, liver enzymes etc. I am about to go back for B12. All looking good so far. I actually have a great GP and would like to develop a comprehensive list of tests with him that I get done every 12 months. I'm thinking from next time and onwards I might include PSA. I note PSA is not on your list. Is it something you have considered?
     
  14. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    4,718
    Location:
    Perth
  15. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,113
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Good to hear it's all done, hope you're doing well!
     
  16. Zos

    Zos Active Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    38
    Location:
    Melbourne

    So no kickbacks in Australia for scripts? Are you a doctor by chance? If no kickbacks that is only good to hear!

    Anyhow CRP is a good one especially when combined with high cholesterol. If all this topic just helps one person it will be worth while. I am not a doctor just sharing info I have found interesting and encourage others to maybe look into it and decide for themselves or to discuss with their doctor.

    Low grade inflamation for which CRP is a marker for) is a pretty important factor when in conjunction with elevated cholesterol levels.

    Arteries become irritated inflammed and now with elevated cholesterol levels this cholesterol is able to bind and build up on the arterie walls. In a good health arterie the cholesterol has nothing to latch onto and jusy glides through. But with an inflamned arterie it has a rough surface and is able to attach itself. Think of it as if your arterie was rubbed with fine sand paper.

    There was a terrific article I read about the myths of cholesterol. This article was written by a heart surgeon who retired and devoted his time to get his message through. I will try and find it and post a link for all to read. This surgeon saw over 5000 cases and he had people who had high cholesterol, low cholesterol and everything in between. He did find a common link with all of the people, this link was low grade inflammationof the arteries. Every person exhibited this inflammation that went under his knife.

    He basically said cholesterol on its own is not the evil thing. Even with levels 5x over top of range would not cause an issue if no low grade inflammation was present.

    The statin market is a huge business. Also when the study into cholesterol first came out who do you think funded it? That is right, the big pharm companies funded it came up with a number and everyone above should be taking their drugs.

    Not only did a recent study find that statins have really now effect on lowering mortality they also went as far to say they can cause serious adverse effects. If anyone is taking statins now I suggest you look into them and also look for the effects they have on the mitochondria! At the very least if you continue to use them you should look at taking COQ as a supplement. There are 2 types of these with one being significantly better in absorbtion.

    Also another myth that has been going around the cholesterol you eat has an effect on the cholesterol in your body. There was a study done on this and it has been said to be false that it has no effect. Will try and find this study. If I remember correctly as far as best diet for lower cholesterol levels was higher fat and lower carbs.

    High carb diets faired the worst on cholesterol levels with it being said fat is much easily digested by the human body than carbohydrates. I can't exactly rember the intrict details of this study but will try and find it and post it up. But worth looking into for the people out there taking cholesterol medication.

    I will repeat, I am not telling anyone what to do just providing some info that I have found interesting. At the end of the day it is up to the individual what he wants to do. I decided to bin the statin prescription and am going with what I believe is correct. After all I could be wrong but it is my life and this is the decision I have taken.

    So for me CRP is one thing that should be monitored definitely. It is a silent killer this low grade inflammation.

    I do have elevated cholesterol levels but my diet has always been good. It was high when I was playing tennis full time, ripped to the bone and never smoking or drinking. Yet I had higher levels than my grandad who ate $hit all his life.

    In my case I think it is genetic.
     
  17. Zos

    Zos Active Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    38
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Yeah PSA is also a good one although now there has been suggestion it may not be that reliable as once thought. The dreaded finger is probably the best for this.

    It is vital to have a good relationship with your doctor. One can also say he is your employee so he should be working with you and listening to what you have to say. A good doctor listens to your symptoms and goes by that not by numbers. We are all different and one cannot put a number on everyone and expect them to respon exactly the same.

    Look I had lowish testosterone levels since I had them checked for the first time in my mid 20's. Back then they came back at around 10nmol. Range was 8-25.

    Back then did not think much of it so did nothing. Only couple years later I decided to start looking into this after my results came back lowish again but still in range mind you. All tests in the morning at this time testosterone levels are the highest so I can imagine I could have been below range in the evening, quite possible.

    Took me 5 years of seeing doctors to actualy do some trials a tests and to get anywhere. I just kept at it until I finally found someone who thinked outside the box and was switched on. She also agreed with me, that having testosterone levels of an old man (80+) in your 30's is not normal or optimal.


    I would also recommend you add E2 (Estradiol) to your list of tests. Yes it is a female hormone but it is found in men also. As you age test goes down and E2 goes up. There is some talk that the higher levels of E2 could be a contributing factor into enlarge prostates in males. It kind of makes sense.

    If it were due to high testosterone alk teenagers would be having prostate issues.

    But seeing as it happens most commonly in older males E2 could be playing a part.

    Could have issues with the doctor doing this test if they are not open minded just push for it and get it done.

    Higher e2 levels can also down regulate testosterone production.

    Some common sides of high e2 are libido loss erection issues, gynacomastia, higher water retention..
     
  18. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    4,718
    Location:
    Perth
    My understanding is that total cholesterol by itself isn't that meaningful. My understanding is that the ratio of HDL to total cholesterol is more important. From mayo:
    http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...expert-answers/cholesterol-ratio/faq-20058006

    I have some recent results around somewhere, so I'll have to check mine again. I'm pretty sure it is under 3.5-to-1. Even so, it might be more important when assessed with CRP, so even if it was above 3.5-to-1 but you have low CRP, it might not indicate an elevated risk.
     
    Zos likes this.
  19. Bran

    Bran Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    3,220
    Location:
    At work
    I wrote a long response but I've lost it. Hopefully its still on my screen at work...
     
  20. Zos

    Zos Active Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    38
    Location:
    Melbourne