Health & Family Baby Formula

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by neK, 14th Sep, 2015.

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  1. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    Can't say I've seen that rule written down in any government or supermarket policy.

    Why not simply buy bulk online from the supermarket and have it home delivered?
     
  2. Simon Hampel

    Simon Hampel Founder Staff Member

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    I just tried seeing how many Woolies Homeshop would let me order - they limit it to four. That doesn't guarantee you'll actually get that many delivered though, depends on stock in their warehouse. It also assumes you live in an area where you can actually get home delivery.

    One factor some people who haven't ever used formula before need to take into consideration is that you need to be careful with very young children (< 12 months) about changing the formula you give them - it can really upset their gut and it takes them a while to adjust to any change. Some babies can actually have an intolerance towards certain formulas, so you can't just switch and expect the child to be okay.

    So if you can't get the formula you usually use because it is sold out, it's not something you can trivially switch with another brand or product that a different store has available - at least not without consequences for the child.

    I think we are seeing the first instances of "food security" (albeit a manufactured food in this case) which I predict will become a very big issue for us in Australia in the future - especially if we continue to allow increasing foreign ownership or control over our primary production.

    Ironically, Nestle infant formula products are made in Switzerland and I believe S26 is from Singapore!

    I think Karicare is made in NZ, although I've also seen references to Karicare products made in the Netherlands.

    From my brief Googling, it seems that Bellamys is the only Australian produced infant formula that I've found (at least of those sold by Woolies).
     
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  3. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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    Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.... but i guess ethics don't mean much to some people.
     
  4. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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    The 4 rule also applies to walking in store.
    However nothing stops these people from getting a whole family and doing multiple trips.
     
  5. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    I'm not disagreeing with your frustration ... I just can't see a way to police it ... and the next person has just as much right to buy as anyone else.

    If there are issues, surely one would stock up themselves during every opportunity
     
  6. sanj

    sanj Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Just to confirm, people are having issues with nom australians buying "our" infant formula that has actually been imported from another country and likely contains ingredients from multiple countries?

    Also, these very same people wouldn't themselves buy something on their travels that happens to be a lot cheaper than at home becaude, you know, it's for locals?
     
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  7. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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    Where the powder has been imported into Australia, its purpose is for Australian consumption, its intended purpose is not for for resale for overseas consumption. It would have had to pass various compliance tests before sales to the market. Unlike some random guy just sending it from overseas.

    For those going overseas and deciding to buy commercial quantities, I would hope they answer the Australian questionnaire upon landing on Australian soil correctly.

    I did mention previously that should you be sourcing your products from a wholesaler and not a retailer then in my opinion that is fine.
     
    Last edited: 29th Sep, 2015
  8. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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    They should make the purchaser show a picture of them and their child (or grandchild). :) Most parents are quite proud to show pictures of their kids.

    I actually thought about that train of thought where I stock up at first available opportunity.... however i didn't want to be greedy and make sure there was sufficient for others. Unfortunately that just opened it up for scum bags to buy and import overseas at inflated prices. Surely those types could find a way to earn money that contributes to the country they live in rather than detracting from it.

    To me its simply the concept of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should"
     
  9. Waldo

    Waldo Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone ever explained to you the concept of capitalism?

    Anyway, on topic - why are Australian babies more entitled to baby formula than Chinese infants? You are saying those who buy up formula to sell are scum - perhaps they are doing great work providing starving overseas infants with food that is of an acceptable standard? After all if they don't have people selling them Australian stock they have to buy the questionable Chinese stock.

    Regarding the comment about it being difficult swapping between formula, the same applies to overseas infants too? If they run low on their own supply, its not unreasonable for them to look for product on the grey import market?

    What I wonder however, is why aren't the Australian distributers and producers shipping straight to China? Seems weird that they're leaving significant money on the table for people to become exporters.

    This whole exercise of people buying up stock, and local families whinging about greedy people trying to make a profit out of the situation reminds me a lot of the arguements you hear from first home buyers and greedy investors pricing them out of the market? Perhaps someone could explain the difference to me? Or we could just agree that we're being a bunch of hypocrits?
     
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  10. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism, all for it, provided you remain ethical about it. Then again, talking about ethics to some people are like talking about fairies and unicorn.

    Maybe the ones who add those inert fillers to the baby formula in China can also be considered capitalists right? Anything to make a buck, why let ethics stand in the way? Oh wait, it harms children....

    No babies are entitled to more than any other. Those importing baby formula to China should do it through the wholesaler. don't take it from the local retailer who's supply is intended for residents. Don't take it from the local retailer who's supply is intended for residents. The stock here is meant for Australian residents.

    Perhaps there are already wholesalers shipping direct to China, I don't know, perhaps its priced higher thus creating a market where people can buy from Australian retailers and onsell to China at a lower price (i know powder in Singapore is $50 a can whereas its $20 here).

    As for comparing milk powder to property, similar in some aspects, different in others.
    Buying up formula to sell to china means when a baby is running low on milk powder, one needs to run around multiple stores to find it. The milk supply eventually is restocked, and available for purchase at its original price of $18.99.

    Now property on the hand, each property is unique, you will never find an identical (similar, but not identical). Once stock is gone, its gone. While it is replenished (by way of new construction), its not at the same price, therein lies the difference.

    If that doesn't make sense to you, then it probably never will. Ethics can't be taught, you either have it or you don't.
     
    Last edited: 30th Sep, 2015
  11. Corey Batt

    Corey Batt Well-Known Member

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    This is nothing to do with ethics - if there's a shortage then it's an issue with the supply chain. A part of a modern supply chain is to adjust to rising and falling demand - which the retail side of the duopoly has automated so I would assume IF there is a real consistant shortage it's related to the wholesaler.

    Grey market's are a nature of inefficient distribution of goods - if you have an issue with it either A) contact those who influence the supply chain or B)influence it yourself.

    Those who are selling the product overseas are doing option B - good on them.
     
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  12. D.T.

    D.T. Specialist Property Manager Business Member

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    Thanks for creating this thread; it gave me a great idea :)
     
  13. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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    @Corey Batt - Interesting train of thought. So you see nothing wrong with clearing out the shelves at your supermarket(s) of baby formula (at the expense of a child not having milk) so that you can make a quick buck. Good to know where you stand.

    Like I said, ethics is something you have, its not something that can be taught. Everyone's definition of ethics is different. Hence why some people cannot see how ethics comes into the equation of business. Some people can sleep at night knowing they've deprived a child of milk, others can't.
     
  14. Gockie

    Gockie Life is good ☺️ Premium Member

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    But what about the Chinese kids? Surely they also deserve to have good milk too? If the government can't guarantee them quality milk, it's not the Chinese parents fault...
     
  15. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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    Therein lies a opportunity for someone to contact the Australian wholesaler to import milk powder into China doesn't it.
     
  16. D.T.

    D.T. Specialist Property Manager Business Member

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    I thought you said taking advantage of an opportunity was an ethics dilemma?
     
  17. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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    That's why i specifically said wholesaler and not retailer. The wholesaler would have to meet a specific level of demand for coles/woolies, which in theory should mean that there should be available powder for those who reside in Australia to purchase it for their own baby's consumption as you don't have "importers" buying off the retail shelves.

    Meanwhile if someone is purchasing from the wholesaler, the wholesaler would have a minimum level of purchase with them, as a result increase manufacturing to meet the demand.
     
  18. Corey Batt

    Corey Batt Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. This has nothing to do with ethics, just incompetent management of the supply chain. If you really feel so passionate about the issue bring it up with the management as to why there isn't sufficient stock being brought in to keep the shelves filled - The majors have a specific policy within their food chain network to ensure empty shelves don't exist as it's lost retail space.

    Brandishing the word 'ethics' and flinging it about it means nothing - where is the great philosophical dilemma with people buying goods to the point that it goes out of stock? The stores selling are there to sell product, not provide a charity. Your argument would make a semblance of sense if the supermarkets raised pricing as a consequence to shortages caused by this, but this isn't happening.

    BTW have been to two different supermarkets in the last two days with full shelves of formula - think I should get in on the gravy train?
     
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  19. D.T.

    D.T. Specialist Property Manager Business Member

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    You take northern suburbs I'll take south?
     
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  20. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps there is an incompetent management of the supply chain, however does that mean one should contribute to it by buying it off retail shelves (to the point where there are none left) to resell for a profit? Then again your definition of ethics clearly differ from mine.

    You are right saying the stores are to sell product and not provide a charity. I would assume that calculations have been made to figure out the level of shelf space required to be allocated for most efficient use. The supermarket is not a warehouse for those looking to buy in bulk to resell.

    As for the philosophical dilemma, every action has a subsequent reaction. The question about ethics is how much you care about the flow on effect.