Australian police response times

I have no complaints.
7 police cars out the front in the wee hours this morning
I can tell you that I am glad I wasn't an offender

Being dragged from the car, thrown to the ground, having my neck stood on whilst getting a knee in the back when being handcuffed, then laying there on the cold wet ground only to have the clearly insane police dog going nuts trying desperately to rip my face apart and getting covered in its saliva, only being held back mere inches by the officer who is still yelling at me.....
(He should have turned right, turning into the court was a BIG mistake )
The 4 kids who did a runner in a stolen car would have been stoked to get to the station last night
CCTV is great to have

 

Curious to hear your thoughts on why you trust them less with guns?

 

actually; no.....its a pity they didn't adopt this view with Lindt cafe...two people would still be alive...they had a chance to snipe him, but were not "legally" given permission.

No; the Police have been well and truly hamstrung in what they can and can't do any more.

I worry about this; we will see a very large exodus from the Force if the rubbish PC crap continues that they have to contend with....soft sentencing, unrealistic plea-bargaining, not being able to retaliate against verbal and physical abuse, charges of "excessive force".... must be terribly frustrating for them.

 

Another thing that annoys me about all this Cop-denigrating and disrespect which is soo the fashion and acceptable in today's "society" is this.......

Who do you reckon all these heros who are Cop-denigrators and haters will call the MOMENT they get into trouble?...when someone pinches their phone, or car, or wallet, or invades their home, or assaults them at the Pub, or attacks their girlfriend on the street, or road rages them and runs them off the road, etc?

Pffft

 

@Bayview - Well said

From the original post:
The OP's problems then went to:

Laws are too soft
Judges are too weak
Problems with immigration
Then wanting the military to do a police job.

And as correctly pointed out above, in the Lindt siege, the police snipers there were not allowed, at law, to fire at Monis.

The military would face exactly the same issues, so would be no better in the same situation.

But hey, those damn police right?

 

NO.

Studies have shown that when people know all the facts they come up with a sentence similar to the judiciary.

You've been watching too much American TV. There is almost no plea bargaining in oz.

Cops should be able to take a bit of verbal abuse. Physical they can certainly retaliate - the word you used 'retaliate' suggests revenge. Cops should not be seeking revenge.

Those charges should be investigated. If they're found to valid very severe actions should be taken against the cops involved.

 

There very much is plea bargaining.

Disgust over eight-year jail terms for pair who shot police officer in head

I'll cut to the chase on the relevant points.

Police officer shot with a shotgun, from a distance of 4.5m - pellets are still imbedded in his head today.

Offenders were charged with attempted murder, those charges were dropped and he plead guilty to recklessly causing injury (not even intentionally causing injury).

So tell me, is it possible to aim a shotgun at someone's head, pull the trigger and not intend to kill them, when you are just 4.5 m away?

Tell me again about that no plea bargaining @Ed Barton ?

 

@geoffw - I can tell that you didn't read the article that I posted, I will take a quote from the article for you

'Phillips and Liszczak were arrested a fortnight after the shooting and charged with attempted murder. But, after discussions with prosecutors, they pleaded guilty in the Supreme Court last month to the lesser charges of recklessly causing injury and reckless conduct endangering life.'

And you are fundamentally wrong - Offenders get a discount if they plead guilty to the charge, for a number of reasons, some you identified, others can be not to put the victim through the ordeal again etc.

A plea bargain is, I will plead guilty to 'lesser charge' if you drop 'serious charge'

But yeah, lets think of all the money and time they saved? Didn't know that's what courts were about? Somehow I thought that there might have been a bit of representation for the guy that was shot in the head.

 

I can fully appreciate the point that you are trying to make.

However, it is giving a discount to the 'bad' people because the system is flawed.

I wonder what would happen if the system changed 180 degrees and it became something similar to: You will get x penalty, however if you contest the charge and your defense is deemed frivolous then the Magistrate/Judge can impose a sentence in excess of the usual maximum due to wasting resources.

Maybe the legal system needs a change of thinking?

 

Many years ago, I used to play golf and squash with a Barrister....he used to regale me with his life as a Defence Counsel; and it was quite hilarious what he had to say about "defendants".

I can promise you that there is a ton of "Courtroom corridor" negotiations.

Happy to hear of any examples of a perp who was given the maximum sentence for any crime within the last say; 40 years?

On the contrary; folks are sick and tired of seeing people commit crimes and get given a slap on the wrist and an ice-cream....see it in the news every other night (well; I don't because I don't watch mainstream news like Channel 7, 9, 10, etc anymore - for reasons such as this)....

 

Conversely; this is why they carry guns:

The difference between being alive and dead for a Cop can be as little as one or two seconds:

 

And therein lies one of the problems; when folks deem it ok to verbally abuse, spit at, swear at Cops; and they have no power of retaliation?...guess what the ramifications are over the longer term?

Cops say "goodbye Force", and leave for an easier job....result?

No Cops.

I hope you never have to call one in your lifetime.

Another problem.

So; in your view; Cops can not seek revenge, but perps can attack Cops without fear of retaliation?

Any form of physical retaliation is usually self-defence, or force required to subdue the perp...given that it is extremely easy for a perp to kill you, or worse; cause lifelong disability from injury; the Cops are required to use swift and overwhelming force to diminish this likelihood....I would.
pics of cops cut with knives - Google Search

However; it often ends up with the Cop being charged with "excessive force" and can be sacked, can be charged with assault, and lose their Force Pension etc as well....they might not get convicted; but their life is made hell while the investigations are conducted.

More Cop exodus.

 

If we compare Australia to many other countries in the world, the general population here is "relatively" safer. This is due to the fact that we have lower population (for now) and a higher standard of living and therefore we dont have very large groups of people who live below the poverty line which can lead into crime. Obviously the remoteness of Australia does enable better border control as well.

However in terms of law enforcement, my experience based on nearly 18 years of living here is that they are mainly here to hand speeding tickets. Beyond handing speeding tickets its the roll of the dice...

Otherwise there has been drug busts where police have ended up shooting each other in the back, terrorist attacks where people have died due to police inaction or been shot by the police, many robberies, street shootings (despite the fact we have banned guns) and so on.

In my opinion this is largely due to lack of experience and proper practices within law enforcement both at state and federal level and partly due to high degree of incompetence at higher up management of law enforcement all the way to politicians which basically has caused the issue in the first place.

 

@Tenex What experience/proper practices prevent terrorist attacks? Prevent robberies? Prevent Street Shootings?

I would be interested to hear the 'police practices' that would fix those?

I suggest that your answer would actually revert back to legislation/judiciary/policy and not police

 

There is no plea bargaining.

 

"I see it because I don't see it" So you just make up anything you want.

Jurors would give softer sentences than judges, study finds

 

What about a perp who (based on evidence) is more than likely to be convicted - and if pleads not guilty and is found guilty is likely to cop 10 years, but decides to plead guilty, which will reduce the sentence from 10 years to say; 6 years?

Or; a perp who is arrested for a crime, but has information that can help the Cops solve another outstanding case, and works a deal to lessen the possible charges on the crime he has been arrested for?

These two scenarios don't exist is what you are saying?