Australian gun laws - should they be reviewed?

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by Mombius Hibachi, 17th Nov, 2015.

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  1. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    Total ban would be my preference except where it is a " work tool " in the bush or licenced shooters for pest control , or for police ( though that could be one and the same ....)

    Cliff
     
  2. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    Is it possible to do it now under our gun laws? Yes? Then I don't think I have an issue with it from a safety perspective as I assume it's quite a controlled sport with licensing requirements, safe areas, controlled gun storage etc etc.

    It is however a want not a need to have a gun.
     
  3. Random Username

    Random Username Well-Known Member

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  4. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

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    Fine.

    If you've going to state facts, then keep in mind that we've had no kids shoot themselves or their friends whilst playing with Dads guns since the gun laws were introduced. Prior to that this type of problem occurred on a semi regular basis. I suspect the fact that firearms now need to be stored securely and separately from ammunition has contributed to this.

    Since the gun laws we haven't seen any mass killings with more than 2 unarmed victims in this country. Prior to the gun laws mass shootings occurred every year or two on a significant scale.

    Ownership of a firearm doesn't mean you're safer. If someone raises a weapon against you and you're not prepared, there's nothing you can do about it even if you do own a firearm (ask them nicely if you can got get your gun so you've got a fair chance to defend yourself). @AndrewTDP has also addressed that argument quite well in a crowded scenario. The self defence argument for firearms is deluded.

    The reality is our gun laws do make us a safer society than we were prior to the restrictions on gun ownership.

    I've got no problem with gun ownership for legitimate purposes in Australia. I've been shooting for sport purposes myself (mostly rabbits and other vermin, I've never had the desire to shoot a duck). I believe our gun laws are appropriate. Some points the gun laws address and allow:

    * For sports purposes it's fine - but keep in in a controlled environment for the same reason people are required to have a license and be in a controlled environment when they go fishing.

    * Primary producers do have legitimate reasons for owning firearms. I've worked on farms in some remote areas, I've seen first hand why firearms are necessary for culling livestock and dealing with preditors.

    * There is no legitimate reason for handgun ownership outside of shooting clubs or law enforcement. Handguns are not useful for primary producers nor hunting. The most useful purpose for handguns is for shooting targets in enclosed environments which suggests the targets are people. If you want to shoot a pistol at a target, visit a gun club, it's legal.

    * There is no legitimate purpose for semi automatic and fully automatic firearms in civilian hands. The purpose of these weapons is to put a lot of lead on a target in a short period of time. This is not necessary in the context of sporting or primary producer use of firearms.

    * Firearms and ammunition are to be properly stored in separate locations. I can't see why anyone handling firearms responsibly should have a problem with this.

    * Does anyone really have a problem with mandatory background checks? Granted people who fail these checks can still get access to firearms illegally, but that's not a reason to give unsuitable people free access.

    Australia's gun laws do allow for legitimate ownership of firearms and help to promote responsible use of those firearms. The self defence argument doesn't work as by the time you legitimately know you need to get your gun for self defence, it's already too late. If this argument was legitimate, the mass killings we see every few months in the USA would have the gunman only killing 1-3 people, instead of the significantly higher amounts that we regularly see.

    I'm happy to support anyone's right to gun ownership for purposes within the laws as they stand. I've yet to see someone make a legitimate argument for the relaxation of Australia's gun laws.
     
    Last edited: 17th Nov, 2015
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  5. Phantom

    Phantom Well-Known Member

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    In a perfect society, everyone having a gun of some sort for whatever reason is fine. Simply because society is perfect. Unfortunately it is not. So tight controls are needed for obvious reasons.

    For me it's simple, if you NEED one for the right reason (sporting, farming, pest control) that's fine. The process to get it should be hard, laws should be strictly enforced when they are broken intentionally or not and if you cannot provide reasonable purpose for having one you shouldn't be able to get one.

    I don't believe that having more of them on the streets will make it safer. Because I don't trust every single person out there. There are countless occurrences worldwide where inexperienced people fondling with loaded guns leads to an accident sometimes death. I'm sure many situations go unreported too due to fear of being reprimanded for negligence.

    In addition, if someone broke into my house and I had a gun, there are a few reasons why 'pulling' my gun out would be hard.

    Firstly, the tell time it takes to get to it and put it together/load it is usally longer than it takes for someone to rob you.

    Secondly, What would the legal ramifications be if I confronted a drug fuelled robber with a loaded weapon and he is isn't phased by my gun and I have to shoot him as he lunges at me? What if he overpowers me and now I am staring into the business side of the barrel? Remember this guy is high on drugs and a criminal. Think of how this scenario could unfold.

    Just a few things to think about....
     
  6. Random Username

    Random Username Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you shouldn't give someone a tool unless they know how to use it.
     
  7. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

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    Given that I'm sure a zombie apocalypse is imminent, it's probably also warranted to address @Westminster concerns.

    Firstly most of the people surviving long term in the examples we've seen have limited ammunition and have resorted to using sharp weapons. Guns aren't a good long term solution for survial.

    Also I'm sorry Westminster, I think you're a lovely person but like most people (myself included), I don't think your odds of surviving a zombie horde are that great. If that day comes and if you've got a gun, most people would be better served to kiss (not bite) their loved ones, then use the weapon in such a way that their own corpses will no longer contribute to the problem. :eek: -> :confused:
     
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  8. catsteve

    catsteve Active Member

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    My take is this.

    The laws introduced in 1996 were pretty good.
    Firearm owners are probably the most fastidiously law-abiding members of society. mess up and you lose your guns. they love their guns.
    Targeting them probably makes a good headline and make the population feel a little fuzzy. but it just make their lives more difficult.

    However, for the jokers running around melbourne/sydney spraying houses/cars with bullets, they should have a far more serious consequence applied.
     
  9. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    Hunters use guns hence the interest from the sporting shooters assoc
     
  10. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    If you want a gun there are still a number of sources available to acquire them illegally, these are the minority that cause the problems for legitimate gun owners. Your local bikie club has a number of firearms for sale ;)

    This guy has the best summary

    Screenshot_2015-11-17-16-08-37.jpg
     
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  11. Brian84

    Brian84 Well-Known Member

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    Facebook doesn't lie :D
     
  12. Brian84

    Brian84 Well-Known Member

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    I have just started doing this at the shooting range and I really enjoy it. I'm even considering getting my gun licence again.
     
  13. Brian84

    Brian84 Well-Known Member

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    Love that movie.
     
  14. Phantom

    Phantom Well-Known Member

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    What kind of shooting? Which range do you go to?
     
  15. Blacky

    Blacky Well-Known Member

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  16. Blacky

    Blacky Well-Known Member

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  17. Brian84

    Brian84 Well-Known Member

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    Clay target on heathcote road near Menai. One weekend Sydney target shooters run it and the alternate weekend Marconi club runs it. We ise the double barrel Barretta shotguns. They are a nice fun to shoot. I have also done shooting at st Mary's indoor rifle range. Using my dads rifles there.
     
  18. Blacky

    Blacky Well-Known Member

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    Just so that you know. Im not anti-guns.
    I have worked extensively on rural properties, and worked as a shooter on a number of them.
    I enjoy shooting as much as the next red-blooded male (and many red-blooded females). I take no pride nor enjoyment from taking an animals life, however, I also understand the neccesity of it at times. My preferance is to hunt for food.
    If you have never taken a life by either hand or shot - you dont have any idea how hard it is to look at another living being and take life from it. To say that someone who is carrying a gun could take the life of another person I think is a bit naive. And if they did - the vast majority of people would struggle with their own conscious for many years to come.
    Im not talking about capability. Hold a gun..aim..fire. That bit is easy.

    Im not sure I would have the nerve to pull the trigger on another person. It goes against my belief of right and wrong. I would have to be in a seriously compromised position to do so.

    Blacky
     
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  19. Phantom

    Phantom Well-Known Member

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    Nice. Those Berettas can get expensive if you go for high end one. ..There a few ranges around Sydney. There is one further west too. The Olympic range at Cecil Park. Nice modern facilities.
     
  20. Brian84

    Brian84 Well-Known Member

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    Yes the ones we shot were their berettas and they said they are around $3500 each. Yes my mate shoots at that one. He had Michael diamond coach him a few times.