Australian GPD Growth Slows To Lowest Since 2011

Discussion in 'Property Market Economics' started by 2FAST4U, 2nd Sep, 2015.

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  1. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

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    From my observation, the current Fed Gubb aren't really against anything the Labor Party are doing....other than taking plenty of bribes from the CFMEU and others :rolleyes:

    They usually come on the media and have to answer questions about some other topic the media want to bring up - other than economic issues, and then the Lib Pollie being interviewed eventually tries to switch it back to the topics of what they are trying to do to govern the Country.

    It amazes me how much they keep their cool through all this.

    Conversely, I'm also amazed that an interviewing journalist hasn't already let fly at Billy Bob Shorten yet - for never coming forward with a solid policy on anything - mostly what he does is argue against what the Libs are for.

    Oh wait; he's bringing back the Carbon emissions tax. o_O
     
  2. radson

    radson Well-Known Member

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    You do remember what Abbott was like in opposition?
     
  3. Ben Chifley

    Ben Chifley Well-Known Member

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    You can't seriously believe this - do you think for a moment that they will be up to the training standards that we have evolved over the decades in this country to protect the public? I don't.

    And big employers are busting a gut to import more Chinese labour because they know that they don't have to pay them anything like what Aussies get. Aussies who live her permanently and pay mortgages and rents.

    I've seen for myself the exploitation of 457's by employers - underpaid, compulsory unpaid overtime. Employers love foreign workers because they know they won't complain; that's why people like Gina have been belly-aching for unfettered access for ages - looks like they're about to be granted their wish.
     
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  4. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

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    I think the difference is that TA had some actual policies, the Labs had 3 leaders and a record deficit etc - hence why he won.

    Currently, TA and the gang are trying to deliver some very bad news to Aussies to correct the disaster that was Labor for 6 years, and exacerbated by a halving of revenue and a do-nothing Senate.

    Of course; the masses don't like any bad news; they only want good news...

    And, the Senate is not letting them deliver any sort of progress.

    Hence, the Gubb is not doing so well in the Polls. But Polls are BS - look at the last election and who won, and why....short memories, folks.

    Julia and Ruddie had a bit more support to get a few things passed, from memory?

    And still managed to get kicked out.

    My sides hurt.
     
    Last edited: 8th Sep, 2015
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  5. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

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    Why do 457 Visa workers get a guernsey at all?

    Here's a clue; maybe they can't entice any Aussie workers to do the jobs?

    Oh; let's see; the conditions and pay rates etc - are not good enough for them to bother?

    Don't you think that if the underpayments etc are so widespread and rife, the Gubb and Union watchdogs would be making just a bit more noise and action about it on an official level, rather than us only hearing about anecdotal evidence?
     
  6. Ben Chifley

    Ben Chifley Well-Known Member

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    Underpayment is EVERYWHERE in Melbourne - I'm not sure what circles you move in but I know plenty of Aussie people who work in hospitality who work for less than award and also compete with illegally-working foreign students or backpackers for work. If you walk down any of the cafe strips in the inner suburbs I guarantee you hardly anyone will be working for award - even the Aussies employed there.

    Do you think $10-15 p/h is a reasonable living wage for an adult living in Melbourne? I don't.

    And I don't know why the media or the Labor Party don't make more of this kind of wide spread illegal activity; maybe because the people who get exploited are generally young and not politically engaged or not Aussie residents.
     
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  7. Waterboy

    Waterboy Well-Known Member

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    I think it's time we have a proper recession so our senses get a wake up call and do all proper reform urgently.
     
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  8. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

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    It is noble that you are so troubled on their behalf, Ben.

    If this is really the case with their pay though, then why are so many restaurants talking of closing down on Sundays due to the casual wage rate of 2.5 times, etc?

    Have you reported these under-payment examples to the relevant Authorities?

    Would it be fair to assume that many of these "under-paid" folks are also getting paid "cash in hand", and hence their lower rate?

    Do any of their tips get declared on their tax return?

    And so on.

    Folks are not forced to work in any particular place of employment. When they are being interviewed, the topic of pay rates comes up, usually. They then have a choice.

    If they are not happy with their rates of pay after they start work, they can complain to Fair Work Australia I'd say.

    $15 per hour might be the award for these sorts of jobs - I don't know.

    Is it enough to live on? Depends where you live. If you are a student trying to live in the CBD - probably not....so move....or; work more hours and/or get a second job, and cut down expenses as much as possible.

    And, get another type of job that might pay more in the new location - my son's mate is 15 years old, and earns $14 per hour working in a local pizza shop.

    I worked as a PSA in an ICU at a local hospital for 3 years when our first child was born.. I was 40 years old.

    The base pay rate was $19 per hour. By working the better paying shifts, I was able to get my income up to around $50k per year - and that was not full-time.

    I worked briefly as a shop assistant in a golf proshop in the USA for $10 per hour. I knew going in what the rate was, but did it anyway....hoping to get some action from Teaching Golf - the money was better for lessons.

    I gave it the @rse after 1 month...it was not panning out as was projected.

    That is what you do if you don't like the arrangement.
     
    Last edited: 8th Sep, 2015
  9. 2FAST4U

    2FAST4U Well-Known Member

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    Exploitation of workers, especially migrant workers and illegal foreigners has been going on for decades under both LNP and ALP federal and state governments, and of course our major retailers such as Coles and Woolworths, Aldi and even IGA.

    As for the Labour hire companies, as long as they are perceived to pay a reasonable amount of tax they are untouchable. The unions do what they can to bring public awareness to the problem, but are brow beaten and crushed by the government bureaucracy at the federal level.

    Why is little done about this? The terms "vested interests", "increased product costs to the consumer", and "far too lazy office bound bureaucrats" do come to mind. Add to that the army of illegal immigrants working here in Australia, and yes, there is a problem.
     
  10. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

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    A decent number of our local IGA staff are our customers in the workshop.

    I have never ever heard a single one of them allude to, or publicly say they are being ripped off.

    Many of them have been there for several years too.

    In fact; when the next one comes in, I will make a point of asking them about their wages and conditions, and report back here.
     
  11. Ben Chifley

    Ben Chifley Well-Known Member

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    Bayview, in answer to your questions -
    • I don't know of many cafes (not near me anyway) who are not open on Sundays; when I walk down Chapel street on a Sunday nearly every shop/cafe is open.
    • It's not my job to police these things.
    • Some people get cash-in-hand but not many. Backpackers and foreign students are more often the ones doing cash. Aussies get underpaid either with illegally low rates or compulsory unpaid overtime.
    • Tips are tiny, we do not typically have a tipping culture in hospitality in Australia. And they often don't get democratically distributed - if you are back-of-house you won't ever get a look in. And I'm aware of at least one business owner who throws the tips straight into the till and the staff aren't allowed to say anything!
    • Do the people have a choice in participating in this or not... I don't think they do because the employers are the rate-setters with the power and in retail and hospitality there are many people willing to work for that ridiculously low wage if you aren't.
    • What would the benefit be to those workers of complaining to some bureaucracy like Fair Work Australia - do you think that it would realistically solve the problem?
    • Would your son's mate be able to afford to work for that wage if he wasn't having his living arrangement subsidised by his parents?
    So you have (mostly) been in a position in your life where you are able to set your own rates - or walk away from a job without fear because you can walk into another one? Good for you. Most people can't do that because they don't have special skills or aren't connected into networks.

    To return to the original topic at hand - our GDP figures are actually the worst since 1961 - worse than 2011, worse than 1991. And one of the main reasons for the big fall in GDP was shrinking wages - so the race to the bottom is actually going to help tip us into technical recession.
     
  12. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

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    No; incorrect.

    I have never been able to set my own rates - I've always been an employee who was accepting of the rate offered. (I have also been a business owner and an Employer as well).

    I have never just left a job and then waltzed into another. I have always gone and found another job first, then left the one I had.

    I have no special skill - other than my previous profession of Teaching Golf, and as an employee in that profession the wages are pretty cr@p - retail award.

    In my days of training (in golf), I worked as a barman at nights and weekends to supplement the cr@p Trainee wages I was earning.

    The PSA job I had was a 1 month TAFE course and then away you go. Anyone can do it.

    And this is my point, Ben....if I can do it, all these other folks you wring your hands for can as well.

    The reason why I'm not crying for these folks is because it is up to you to make yer own luck and make yer own path. Noone owes these folks a living or a 6 figure salary.

    You work 1, or 2, or 3, or 4 jobs if you have to...or find a new place and job that will pay what you need.

    Hell; I've never earned a 6 figure PAYE salary in my entire life....not even close (took an $80k wage from the workshop for a year or so at the start until things went cr@p).

    Not crying; just pointing out a fact and a mindset.
     
  13. Ben Chifley

    Ben Chifley Well-Known Member

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    It's a brave new world out there now - the workforce is nothing like it was twenty years ago. We're constantly told that penalty rates are outdated and that they should go - that we need to work longer hours. Many of the traditionally regulated conditions in the workplace that were fought for by the union movement in the 1880's-1890's are being progressively wound back in the interests of international productivity and 'keeping up with Asia'.

    I this what many people with this whizz-bang free market proto-Thatcherite view of Australia fail to appreciate is that our many years of economic growth and stability were borne out of the struggles of the working class over a hundred years ago - and that there will be diabolical consequences to the progressive unwinding of that structure - it will alter the Aussie paradigm substantially. And we all have stakes in this outcome - particularly people on this board with a vested interest in property ownership who might rely on the capacity of their tenants to keep underwriting their bottom line.

    Think about this: In the 1950's Detriot had the highest median wages in the world.
     
    Last edited: 8th Sep, 2015
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  14. turk

    turk Well-Known Member

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    Question is, could Australia become analogous with Detroit?
     
  15. Ben Chifley

    Ben Chifley Well-Known Member

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    Bayview I think we will have to differ on our views of humanity, we are not all like you. I am not a Christian but I do believe that Jesus was onto something when he said we have a responsibility to look out for our fellow human being - I think those values were at the core of our egalitarian Australian society.

    Personally I don't want to live in a society where people are walled off from each other behind steel gates or where there are thousands of homeless people apparently invisible on the city streets (as I've seen overseas). That isn't an Australia that I want to live in.
     
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  16. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

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    The places that are shutting down the car manufacturing could.
    Apparently Elizabeth in SA already has around 33% unemployment!
     
  17. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

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    I would argue that our GDP is a reflection of the mining boom that ended, the job losses from the various industries over the last few years such as the cars, and other various manufacturers.

    We as a Nation are in decline as manufacturers as the world hungers for and gets better at producing and buying cheaper made product form O/S....

    Noone wants to support local businesses anymore, and our labor costs are part of the reason why the gap between O/S produced and local produced/sold is so great in many instances...

    The gravy days are now gone due to the decision to start making things cheaper in cheaper labor markets.

    But it's not just that; my SIL lives in Bali now. She has built 2 houses since living there, and the building crew she used is on a third project for her, and one for her SIL.

    These blokes work daylight till dark to finish the jobs...do any Aussies work like that?

    We are sh*tt*ng in our own nest, so to speak.
     
  18. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

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    Well; there's the main difference right there - I don't believe in God, or any form of higher authority - other than Nature.

    But; as far as looking after your fellow man; I'm all for that.

    However; having lived for 54 years so far, I have had the benefit (or misfortune) of having to tough it out, go without, work my guts out, get no help and therefore am not of the mindset of handwringing for folks who are working in a low paying job.

    I worry for our future as much as anyone else, but let's get real; we all have a choice to change our work circumstances if we want.
     
  19. Ben Chifley

    Ben Chifley Well-Known Member

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    I think many people are blinkered by our outstanding success - we have never had urban decay in Australia like they have in other Western nations, simply because we've always enjoyed such a high standard of living through a highly regulated and (often) unionised workforce and a relatively good social security system started by Andrew Fisher in 1908 but entrenched into Australian society by - ironically - my nemesis Bob Menzies.

    The progressive stripping of these pillars of Australian society could well lead to a cycle like the one that destroyed Detroit - increased unemployment followed by its bedfellows drug/alcohol abuse and runaway crime. Azazel rightly points out, 1 in 3 adults in Elizabeth SA are unemployed - its not exactly a recipe for social inclusion and safe streets. I drove a hire car around Elizabeth earlier this year and I was shocked with the number of empty factories and rubbish lying everywhere - and Holden hasn't even closed yet.
     
  20. Ben Chifley

    Ben Chifley Well-Known Member

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    I think if they are being underpaid there's no way they would tell a curious stranger that.
     

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