Australia, do we need state borders ???

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Stoffo, 19th Jul, 2020.

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  1. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    So clearly losing ground, if you believe in polls
     
    MTR, 29th Aug, 2020
    #61
  2. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    The last I heard, Andrews has backed down his quest for a 12 months state of emergency, and is asking for six months.

    The drop is huge, and I suspect it follows Victoria's explosion in infection numbers. Anything could happen from here on in.

    I think most people understand this. In the meantime, the idea is to stop as many people as possible from being infected.

    Lack of lockdown will kill people and not the virus.

    I've mentioned before that my cousin's MIL dies from coronavirus. I've just found out that one of my cousin's SILs visited her dying mother the day before she died, and is now infected. She already has cancer, so comorbidity is an issue. All possible precautions would have been taken to protect her in the visit, but this is the insidious nature of the virus, and it's the reason that precautions need to be taken until a vaccine is found. There are many countries taking far fewer precautions where far more people are dying.

    But hey, let's just open up the economy, and don't worry about all the extra tens of thousands people who are going to die.
     
    geoffw, 29th Aug, 2020
    #62
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  3. Property Baron

    Property Baron Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to say but we can't eliminate it even with a vaccine. Vaccine can only suppress it but still ground hog day - just like the flu.

    Agree though we have to learn to live with it, Not sure this can happen within a divided democracy though:eek:
     
    Property Baron, 29th Aug, 2020
    #63
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  4. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    media hysteria, politics

    Labor premiers the worst

    Our Premier in WA now allowing chief executive of AFL into WA no quarantine, but they just jailed someone for 6 months for entering/sneaking into the WA

    double standards an absolute mockery
     
    MTR, 29th Aug, 2020
    #64
  5. Property Baron

    Property Baron Well-Known Member

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    Haha the rich and famous have different rules than the peasants, always have always will. This is democracy at it's finest
    Just imagine if the CCP did something like this...
     
    Property Baron, 29th Aug, 2020
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  6. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    What do we do about the collateral damage..... only people, their livelihoods but hey thats Ok
     
    MTR, 29th Aug, 2020
    #66
  7. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Yes unreal
     
    MTR, 29th Aug, 2020
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  8. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    How many people would you be prepared to sacrifice to allow the economy to be better?
     
    geoffw, 29th Aug, 2020
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  9. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: 29th Aug, 2020
    MTR, 29th Aug, 2020
    #69
  10. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    That article was from June, when deaths in the US were declining. After that, many states started to open up again, and the death rates started increasing again.

    The US didn't close down to anywhere near the extent that Australia closed down. They have 23 times the death rate - and they still closed down to some extent. Australia would have had 13,000 deaths if they'd had the same rate as the US. And the US still hasn't saved their economy.

    Sweden tried to keep the economy going by not closing down to anywhere near the same extent. The economy still declined, and the death rate was far higher than their Scandinavian neighbours.
     
    geoffw, 29th Aug, 2020
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  11. Stoffo

    Stoffo Well-Known Member

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    I feel for Dan (as little as anyone can for a politiciano_O)

    He was abused for keeping restrictions in place (before folding to voter pressure)
    Since the second wave he has been held liable for all the morons actions :rolleyes: (think tv interview of young idiot who couldn't care if he infected his parents or grandparents)!

    There has been so much debate over the NSW-Qld border, yet many in Albury- Wodonga & those small Victorian country towns nearing the SA border to Adelaide who all regularly cross the boundary to shop or for medical services have been shut out :(

    In the current times I find it disappointing that the Federal gov didn't overrule the states, aka, forming a temporary line south of the stated current Qld-NSW & NSW-Vic borders to save so many hassles (confusion or loss of life).

    As @thatbum comment's, the states seem to have more power here !
    The common good will suffer at the fault of power bickering :mad:
     
    Stoffo, 29th Aug, 2020
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  12. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Cherrypicking and please take modelling with a grain of salt. Its not an exact science and proven to be over stated
     
    MTR, 29th Aug, 2020
    #72
  13. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    I will agree with one thing power hungry politicians are ruining this country
     
    MTR, 29th Aug, 2020
    #73
  14. Property Baron

    Property Baron Well-Known Member

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    We can number count all we like. As a whole the virus is mild for 99% of us.
    Closing down the country is unnecessary if people follow the rules.
    Victorians did not.
    In Australia we have approx 120 old age related deaths per day.
    Approx 130 deaths per day from cancer

    Should we be counting all deaths?
     
    Property Baron, 29th Aug, 2020
    #74
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  15. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    How many cherries would it take? Australia has locked down, and has done very well by world standards- though Victoria has made it a lot worse, showing what happens when people break lockdown.

    In terms of deaths per million, according to viruschat.com.au Australia is ranked 70 out of 88 countries. New Zealand doesn't even get into the top 88, with a stricter lockdown. Countries doing a lot worse with less strict measures include Peru, Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy (lockdowns in those countries started well after it had taken hold), Chile, Brazil, Sweden, US, Mexico ... that's ten cherries, how many more would you like me to pick?
     
    geoffw, 29th Aug, 2020
    #75
  16. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    1% die. About 20% require hospitalisation. Many people infected have permanent damage.

    Some closing down is necessary - the rules include no large gatherings, which necessitates closing down of at least some activities. Victoria's closing down is much more severe now because the virus was spreading rapidly. It appears that it's coming under some sort of control, so when it does, rules can be relaxed.

    If we had no controls at all, death rates would be soaring. They are low because of rules - and rose when the rules were broken.
     
    geoffw, 29th Aug, 2020
    #76
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  17. Property Baron

    Property Baron Well-Known Member

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    This permanent damage thing is interesting.
    I'm not meaning to be negative but lots of things cause permanent damage. Breathing in pollution does, eating sugar does,drinking alcohol does,eating to much red meat does and so on.

    I just wonder if it has been blown out of proportion. Does this mean that Tom Hanks and Peter Dutton have permanent damage that will effect there lives?

    Interesting topic this one.
     
    Property Baron, 29th Aug, 2020
    #77
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  18. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Amen
     
    MTR, 29th Aug, 2020
    #78
  19. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Tom Hanks starting in a new movie, not on death’s door yet:confused:
     
    MTR, 29th Aug, 2020
    #79
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  20. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    and what if we get another spike in Vic or another State ? More lockdowns....???? This is very possible.

    So government can pay for jobkeeper forever, business can shutdown indefinitely?
     
    MTR, 29th Aug, 2020
    #80
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