At 40 and no home

So why don't shop assistants, they're not unionised after all.

 

Sunday is only a start.

I am not sure of your age, but life was better when Sunday was a family and rest day, apart from more money for business, there is no justification for not rewarding people more for giving up family time.

This is not a libs and labour thing, this is just doing the right thing to people, can't make money ? close down or close on days where demand does not pay for the bills.

The more jobs argument is just scare tactics to help business make more profit, if business is so bad, then closing is probably better, or a complete re structure and re work.

 

I dont even open on Saturdays anymore, because I looked at the figures over a 12 month period some years ago, and the nett profit was not there...it was really just a dollar swap and lots of extra hours and headaches. It would only ever have worked if we did double the tyre sales on that day; and if we only did services; we would have to increase the hourly rate - sorta like how restaurants and cafes sometimes do with a weekend/holiday surcharge...folks arent keen to pay extra for their car services just because it is a Sat or Sun, I suspect.

I wasn't arguing against you on this one.

But; there must have been a case for it in those hospitality areas, otherwise the whole notion would never have been raised?

As I said; the case was not prosecuted enough to the Public, so the general public view is that the little people lose out again.

 

Yeah, I didn't realise businesses were run in such a altruistic way. More like they will get rid of Sunday penalty rates then get rid of weekend rates altogether. It's nothing about going to church. Maybe you would see this more clearly if you had a partner who worked in an industry like retail (which is low paid) while you worked in a normal 9 to 5 job. The penalty rates compensate these people for pretty much not being able to see their family and friends as easily and normally as most other workers in Australia. They are already heavily casualised and pretty much guaranteed nothing in term of hours or income, let alone having the ability to plan or budget for more than the most immediate future. Let's not pretend it's the business fat cats that are the ones being ripped off here

 

No, not some, most.

I know someone who works part time, so they always get them to work Mon-Fri, never Sat or Sun, which suits, but they already told them all many times, if the rates come down, they will make them take weekdays of and be forced onto weekend work.

They make a good profit already.

They use young people on weekends now to save a few bucks, but who is kidding who, they make millions anyway, the owners are just plain greedy small business owners wringing the neck out of the business, staff turnover is high, they do not care, nor do many other businesses, which all contributes to the insecure nature of employment these days.

If all the people who think this is a good idea were on 20 bucks an hour themselves, then they were forced to do all the unsociable hours with no option but to swallow it, they would *ALL* change their attitude.

I always treated my staff well, I wanted them to stay around, it was hard to keep people and far more expensive for me when staff changed. Too many focus on money first now.

 

yup

@dabbler this is the real world. My CIP costs money 7 days/wk not 5. If the bank didn't charge interest on those two days, I wouldn't charge you rent either.

 

Exactly.

no-one is saying to take away the penalty rates altogether and not reward folks for giving up their "family time"...

It is a change from 2.5 hrs to 1.5 hrs to make both days the same...it is more reflective of today's society.

For most people there is no difference in lifestyle between Sat and Sun these days; so why should Sun be at a super-premium?

If Sun is a more important day due to religious following, then those folks won't work that day anyway if it is an elective day....if they do choose to work it; they get 1.5 hrs as compensation....same as a nurse whose job is a fair bit more important in the scheme of things.

By the way; I'm 56...I can still remember mon-fri trading, the introduction of late-night Fri shopping, Sat morning shopping until midday, 6.00pm Pub closings, and still remember when 7-11 shops first opened and everyone thought how cool that was.

I can still remember going to Chadstone shopping centre as a 10 year old on Sundays to rollerskate around the empty concrete malls, and still remember going into Melb CBD on weekends and all the shops were closed..even Myers in Bourke st.

 

@Scott No Mates

We all have to adjust for these things and absorb things......

Like vacancy, repairs, renos, rates even if no income or being used, etc etc

So there are always things to consider in every business. I like the idea of business that can make money and keep everyone happy.

There is some great docos on some US companies, where basically there is a line up to get in there, people stay till they die - very much by choice, the businesses look after the people, the people look after the business, unfortunately, a lot of that is being lost & it has gone from Sydney many years ago.

It really was better when work was Mon - Fri and mainly one bread winner, but people cannot see what they are pushing for lowers the bar for all, how low can it go ? Who knows, but pretty low I reckon.

I think there would be other ways to improve the system, not cutting the legs of those already on stumps

Anyway, were going OT and we wont change this push, but there needs to be people who push back.

This whole thing is a slippery slope & frankly a heap of people are on agreements which are flat already, they will push, and push and push, it is a paid lobby group to continue to apply pressure all with the aim of raising *profit* they are already making.

 

And at 56 you should be able to see actually how uncool it really turned out, along with now 2 people having to work.

It is not needed, it is just pure convenience in many cases, it is all designed to generate more money, nothing else & often, maybe, there is a finite amount that can be extracted, maybe just less income over more days for some.

It is a full circle.

Why not just have everyone work 12hrs 7 days and for flat wages, would that work for everyone ? Basically your saying family and the weekend is not important anymore ? No need to answer, but that is basically what is being said.

 

It's not necessary for everyone to have two breadwinners - I'm younger than @Bayview and not suffering the excesses of dual incomes.

Penalty rates have never featured in my employment. Who are the ones working weekends? In general, students (big generalisation), difficult to get childcare or family daycare on weekends.

 

I have to for low flat rate, also public holidays etc, you wont catch any execs, office staff or management doing it.

I also know how the large corporations work and what they do to workers including illegal things on a regular basis & if you do anything to push back, guess what happens to your hrs, that is why they like so many casuals in the business.

Anyway, I think I have said enough, I only see mostly people who advocate for this who are not the ones effected & that is the basic, simple truth & most of them are making good money who do push, or want to make even more & they do not care about the staff at all, simple as that.

 

No; I have never advocated complete removal of penalty rates...and I have never advocated that weekends are not important for most people.

The entire Country recognises this fact; hence there are penalty rates applied to virtually every industry in this Country on weekends, night shifts, etc.

All I have advocated is that Sunday does not have the religious significance for the wider society it once had, and therefore a super-premium should not be applied to that one day of the weekend.

I am advocating that both days should be treated the same.....1.5 hrs.

If many businesses choose to close on Sunday due to the exhorbitant rates - and if a ruling is implemented by Fairwork that it should be adjusted; it implies that there is enough of an issue with Sunday rates for there to be any sort of discussion/enquiry/debate/judiciary decision at all...and there has been.

Bottom line; if a business is closed on Sunday; no-one earns any money....no-one.

So; if an adjustment back to the same rate as Satruday means lots more businesses open; then everyone wins.

Yes; a small percentage of workers will be inconvenienced, They have the choice to move jobs.

 

Management leads by example, you get paid and do what's required. I've done plenty of weekends, 2 weeks straight, overnighters etc without additional $$

It does happen.

 

This is incorrect.

Most folks here are either in your position, or like me; have been there and done that....working low paid jobs, and then taking on a second or even third job to earn more pesos.

Low paid jobs - for most people with ambition - are a temporary situation and/or a stepping stone to better things...life path.

I worked full-time as an apprentice, and also worked weekends after I finished work at my fulltime job weekend work (yes we had to work Sat and Sun in the Golf industry) and nights/days off as a barman to earn more coin when I was in my late teens and early 20's because my apprenticeship wage was so crap....not bragging; just laying out facts.

It's an attitude thing; if you are working in a low-paid job and feel you are being reamed; move on....it is not a set-in-stone situation in your life.

 

I think your missing the point/s.

I did not mean you or people here advocating, frankly, we are not the decision makers or in position to lobby, we are basically wasting breath, only reason I write is to maybe let some others see another way.

Your comment is like Joe Hockeys & is what brings anger too many, I indeed do choose to do what I do, I have some benefits that suit me, well really suited me at the time, *I can move*, but I also know what they do to people who cannot move & I will not write it here who/what/where.

I am doing something now, that I did 3 decades ago, job has not changed, but pay now is no better than what I got back then, actually, I got more & there is more regulation & also now many pay for own training etc, it really is a sham, however, many industries are worse.

Many in retail must pay for own uniform for instance, so some big wig has an image change and decides to change uniform, and you have to pay, this is wrong.

Another person I know well had a part time job, it was about 12 hrs, the employer expected them weekly or sometimes more to attend unpaid training and other requirements to keep the job, it is/was a joke, and there are thousands of the poor buggers putting up with this....

This sort of thing is rife and systemic & the rates is just part of this, but it is an abuse of people, not too mention many are on edge threatened with losing the job at any time - by design, on purpose.

There are people who will not be able too get away from this stuff, they probably can't ever & many may be customers of ours.

What I mean by people would change their minds, well they first have to understand that a chunk of people may not get a choice & this further erodes ability to possibly change.

Not everyone has our confidence and ability, well of a chunk of people on this forum.

I urge people to think more fairly towards these people & not just shrug the shoulders, cause it is coming to many more people, it is a slide, an erosion.

 

It just begs the question: what is a good rate? Does it depend on age, skills, ability, education, training, experience, determination, time of day, looks, old Boys club, charm, demand, supply of replacements?

 

Having grown up poor, left school early (halfway through Year 12) to pursue a career and had to move interstate to do it with no financial help from anyone (broke parents)....I have to disagree with all this.

Life owes you zero, and you can either complain about unfairness, or get on with it.

Sorry.

 

You should see how much many health care workers make on weekends and overtime. It's astounding.

 

Martin Niemoller (1892–1984):

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

The exploitation of the labour is but a natural progression after successful denigration and exploitation of the vulnerable. Boat-people, Aborigines, Disabled, Unemployed, Students, Foreign worker...

 

Confucius (551BC - 471BC):

Man who go sideways through airport door not necessarily going to Bangkok.

Note that Confucius did not seem to care as to whether this man was a member of any of the groups identified in the above posts, probably because it didn't matter...