NSW Around 1.3m where to buy for good pri and sec school

1.3m for an entry level house in the middle ring???? I'd be moving our of Sydney if my circumstances allowed it, for the same money my family could live in a really nice house in middle ring or entry level in a top notch suburb plus I would see them for an extra 5-7 hours a week just purely on time saved in transit.

 

Doesn't make sense to me at all, especially if you are lucky enough to be earning a high income elsewhere.
Best of both worlds.

 

But that is the thing, not that many people can earn high income in smaller/remote places. Most of the high paying jobs are concentrated in Sydney and Melbourne in general. From time to time, with mining boom there can be lots of high paying jobs in smaller towns but then it goes bust and all those jobs are gone.

 

Correct. .but its interesting that by far the majority wont get those kind of jobs...but still want to be in proximity to opportunity; however unrealistic it may be.

 

Most people had already bought in the area between 40 to 5 years ago and these people did not have to stump up the current high prices! In my old house, one neighbours been there 45 years, the other probably 12 years, but they surely had a lot of equity from their former ppor too. In the new house, lots of neighbours have been there a long time. Lady across the street has been there for 60+ years, lady behind us 20+ years. I'm pretty sure none of them bought in when it was so pricey! Its only in the past few years the prices got over 1mill.

Its become desirable because the kids can get into the very well regarded local schools, the transport is really handy, university and major shopping centre in the next suburb both accessible by direct bus, great roads to the city nearby, easy access to the north and its a nice quiet but handy area anyway.

When we moved into our old house the Epping to Chatswood train line opened 4 months after we moved in, we have great neighbours, leafy neighbourhood... so people don't move out from here unless they have to, so there's just very limited stock on the market. People stay in the area, I know one guy who lived on one house of our former street saw a house he liked on the other side.
So he bought that and moved into it. I know he has a few houses in the street.

Similarly, I moved from one house to another house nearby. Crazy amount of stamp duty had to be forked out but the new house was absolutely worth making the move for. The price tag of the new place was not a killer as we'd basically paid off the old house. Its an area that i'm really happy to live in (the only downside for me is the climate - it gets cold in winter unlike Brisbane!), and for me there's no need to move anywhere into another part of Sydney. Though if/when CBA moves to ATP at Redfern it would be tempting to move into my apartment that's in that area lol!

Anyway I know parents will continue to find it a very desirable area to buy going forward.... the new owners of our old house are apparently a young Chinese couple moving up from Hurstville. No doubt looking to raise a family. I'm happy.

 

anyone would think you were talking about vaucluse.

the median household income here is not all that high, it is around 1700/wk if memory serves me correctly. apparently 40% of people own their homes outright which fits in with the idea that there are a fair few people who have been there a while but it still means 60% have a mortgage and some of them are finding themselves miraculously having to pay close to the average after tax median wage in this country to make interest payments on an entry level home in middle ring sydney.

sydney is a great city but its going toi shoot itself in the foot if this madness is not curtailed somewhat. some people are going to realise it is just ridiculous and move to another city/town. some are going to grin and bear it, just accepting that they will have to have many hours less "free" time a week vs someone else doing their very same job in another city in similar financial situation, accept that this same person who gets to work in 30 mins vs their 90 mins also lives in a nicer house/area and has a bit more money left over in their pocket at the end of the month too.

oh yeah lets not forget the people who just have to cop it, ah well too bad.

i just cannot see how this is more good than bad for sydney the city and the majority of its residents.

 

btw, i think you greatly underestimate how many unglamorous but vital jobs out there actually pay pretty damn well.

nursing - a registered nurse STARTS on $63K in WA+significant loadings and goes up to $85k or so, that same role in Vic is $53K going up to mid 70s i think. sydney wages are about in line with WA, just a touch under

police - Annual base salaries for WA Police range from $50,327 for recruits to $66,960 for a first-year constable, $93,724 for sergeants and $128,977 for inspectors. Officers are also paid shift penalties. In sydney, that same constable makes $53k per year, a full $13k less and has to do the same job and live in much worse accommodation.

teachers - the average high school teacher in perth gets paid around 10-15% more than sydney teachers.

 

my frustration is simple - a comparable area in perth would be say winthrop. also very popular with families, good schools nearby, appeals to asians too although not specifically an asian dominated suburb at all.

an "entry level" home would be somewhere in the mid to high 600s for something pretty tired but you can buy this for mid 700s. 18 Keenan Way Winthrop WA 6150 - House for Sale #122501202 - realestate.com.au , a perfectly comfortable family home on a good sized block with a pool etc.

now imagine a couple consisting of a teacher and a nurse, both extremely important professions but certainly never considered to be very high paying.

sydney - salary 63k+ 60k = 123k - interest on 80% LVR 1.5m comfortable house = $48-50k. deposit +stamps etc about $350k
perth - salary 63k+ 69k = 132k - interest on 80% of above comparable house = $25k or so i/o. deposit + stamps = $190k

same jobs, same training/qualifications required, similar conditions, vastly different outcomes all because one had the misfortune to be in sydney at a time where nothing makes sense. it is manifestly unjust, should people need to become investment geniuses just to afford a lower end but comfortable family home in a middle ring suburb?

i know this will be a very unpopular opinion but i really do hate the idea of it, the gaps between those who do and dont have capital could widen significantly from here and once that starts it is hard to stop.

 

Once you leave Sydney it is very difficult to return - it has been that way for many years.

When you come back it tends to be to a main road or some other compromise to get into a reasonable area.

Likewise there is the temptation to cash in the Sydney capital and move somewhere cheaper - but that is always something that can be done later on.

The longer you stick it out the better the result - well at least that has been the case up to now.

 

the better the result in what way? who gains by a couple being financially stretched or time poor due to having to live far away from work or not seeing their kids as much as they like for above reasons or delaying having kids at all etc? i genuinely do not see how that is a better result for the couple.

it is also bad for the city, not just because essential workers are going to be pushed out to the sticks but because if all of someones energy and time is spent putting a roof over their heads or to try and stick it out to wait for the next boom and make some money from a heavily NG property etc then how likely are they to start a business or pursue higher studies or a passion or volunteer or whatever? when there is no margin for error it leads to lots of wasted talent and potential.

yes sydney has always been expensive and id even admit in a lot of regards justifiably so but the current climate is inexcusable imo

 

I'm just saying that if you ultimately want to live in Sydney - then get in early and make it work.

If you leave because it is too expensive then you probably will not be able to get back in.

I know a few people that sold up units in Balmain etc to buy a house or townhouse in Brisbane etc. Now they would like to be back in Sydney but pretty much cannot do it.

But I agree that rising prices only benefit the existing landowners at the detriment of the overall economy. But also you need the expectation of rising prices for the whole game to work.

 

This is why many people buy units, townhouses and villas in Sydney.... cheaper entry but gives you a reasonable location. Its a tradeoff... Sydney's always been more expensive. Around the year 2000 I was talking with a fellow uni student from Perth. Back then 300k got you a normal house in normal Sydney. At the same time with that same money you could buy near the best of the best in Perth! I also remember seeing my stock standard middle ring Sydney house being more expensive than the median for any suburb in Hobart...
As @Tonibell just said, you can sell up but its hard to get back in again. And if you decide to move but hold then rental yields tend to be very poor unless you look in the lower SES areas or have something like a granny flat or a strata property. Land tax thresholds are nowhere near the land value of an average middle ring property either. This all helps prevent hoarding, but even so, there is the OO demand that keeps Sydney property ticking along....

 

i dont disagree with what youre saying btw, you are correct, i just disagree with the entire premise.

my issue with sydney is the extent of the high prices and liveability trade offs, not that they exist in the first place because unfortunately that will always be the case to some extent in big cities.

 

How is this any different than in other countries eg nyc to say dallas, London to manchester wtc...nyc, london have not shot themselves in the foot...maybe temp with cyclical movements but not long term averaged sustainable trend.
Not saying its good nor bad...just the price of entry to play with the top dogs.

 

what is it a trade off for? looking at my example above, what is the couple in sydney getting in return for this trade off?

300k was never anywhere near the best of the best in perth in 2000 btw but youre right it certainly did go a long way.

 

in your examples those cities are hugely bigger and more significant, eg 8.5m vs1.3m for NYC vs dallas and 8m vs 2.5m or so for manchester.

sydney vs perth/brisbane/even parts of melbourne is nowhere near as stark a contrast

and again, what top dogs? im genuinely asking here. most people in the sydney arent there to play with the top dogs, this isnt wall street here.

 

Its a Space vs. Location vs. Cost tradeoff. You can't have all three if you are starting out here! The general thing is that properties generally go up. So once you are on the ladder you can relax and can stop being a renter! My colleague was looking and looking for many months... bought during the boom. Had to compromise on location, but she did finally buy. I know people still looking to buy their first place here or looking to upgrade.
It would also happen in other cities but the cost side is less prohibitive.

 

sydney Iis the biggest and baddest we havein Australia. It has the biggest, best opportunities in the country by volume in a city. Agreed most would never be able to get any benefit from those opps, but their actual presence draws people in...this is no different in terms of market behavior to the londons nyc etc. Its all market based and the market has spoken in syd, london, nyc etc...whether we like it or not.

 

Have you looked at hornsby?

Waitara Public School has a good reputation and an Opportunity Class...excellent high schools (both public and pte) ..and not too far down the Northern line to North Ryde and Beecroft...all the best!

 

@sanj, most people ended up staying in Sydney because of existing family and friends.

Yes they all have option to move to other cities with cheaper housing. However it is dependent on availability of jobs. Then they have the "missing family and friends" factor.

If they can overcome that, then yes they can move to anywhere they want and as long as they get a job, they would definitely have a much easier life.

Most people move to Sydney for job because smaller cities cannot provide those opportunities to them (myself included). Once they have a job and start building new friendships, then they don't want to leave because it is always a place where there are plenty of jobs around.

I can sell my PPOR right now and buy one in Adelaide and have a good life to raise kids. In reality there are hardly any jobs there for me to go back to. However, once I retire someday, and if I cannot survive in Sydney for whatever reason, that would be option to me. But that would not be an option to most people because they don't have friends/families there.