Are all property educators "spruikers"?

Discussion in 'Property Experts' started by Lisa Parker, 25th Feb, 2016.

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  1. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member

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    It could be done in a completely legitimate and above board way I agree. But personally I don't like more temptation to be in the mix. That's why its only my opinion, and I wouldn't work with a mentor who operates in this manner.'

    geez what have I gotten myself into.. I was only intending to make 1 post...o_O
     
  2. Lisa Parker

    Lisa Parker Well-Known Member

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    What is the temptation? The temptation to do what?
    If the participant is going off buying their own properties and has been taught how to structure loans so that they have more control over their assets and know the valuations, what could the educator do to negatively impact the participant?
     
  3. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

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    Depends on the circumstances.

    If I as a mortgage broker run an educational seminar, there's clearly no conflict of interest. I am however acting as both the 'educator' and as the mortgage broker. It's also quite obvious that I'm acting in both those roles. A conflict might existing if the educator had an interest in a brokers buisness, if that interest isn't disclosed.

    If Lisa runs a course as and educator and invites me to speak and I pay her for any business I generate from the course attendees, then there is potentially a conflict of interest, if that payment is not disclosed.

    If I don't pay Lisa anything, then there's unlikely to be a conflict of interest. More likely the referal relationship is based on mutual trust that the other party will take care of the clients.

    Keep in mind however that this assumes Lisa is not acting for a vendor (and I know she never does this). If the 'educator' is recommending properties and receiving any sort of renumeration from the vendor for that recommendation, that is a clear conflict of interest. It also generates a conflict of interest for anyone else in a referral chain.

    Mortgage brokers are legally required to disclose any renumeration they exchange (giving or receiveing) with third parties.
     
    Last edited: 25th Feb, 2016
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  4. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member

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    1. Temptation to encourage clients to buy properties so they can go though your brokerage company. This could even be done subconsciously.
    2. Your implying to your clients that your brokerage company is expert in their field. Maybe yes, maybe no, but once you become their mentor, there is automatically a trust given by the client so anything you put forward after that, you need to act in a highly ethical manner.
    3. Usually the best mentors I have seen wont charge or get any kind of kickback whatsoever for recommending good contacts. Just my opinion.

    Ok i'm out.
     
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  5. Lisa Parker

    Lisa Parker Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha! That makes sense. I couldn't see any of those issues.

    I think number two then applies even if there is no money exchanged. Ie) in @Peter_Tersteeg 's example, #2 could be said to be true in that case even when no money exchanges hands.

    #3 - I do not receive any kickbacks from anyone I refer business to. If there is one offered I request it is passed on in the form of a discount to my client or donated to charity. I believe it is unethical for me to refer to others for a fee. It doesn't seem like a referral based on my belief in the service providers work if I were to receive funds in the exchange. Having said that, if an educator had a share in say a mortage broking business I wouldnt have an issue with it. But I know what I am looking for in a broker, which is not true for newbies necessarily. So I see where you are coming from.
     
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  6. Lisa Parker

    Lisa Parker Well-Known Member

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    And real estate agents and buyers advocates. However if an educator owned a share in the mortgage broking business then the mortgage broker doesn't have to disclose as its not a third party and educators have no such restrictions either. Is that correct? @Terry_w you might know?
     
  7. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    Yes i think this would be the case.
     
  8. Player

    Player Well-Known Member

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    Talking about the mentor's time. To clarify I am replying more to the tune of Leo's post where a mentorship is entered into (be it paid or pro bono in that the mentor wishes to share and pay it forward) rather than the "educators" you refer to. Most of the people running seminars aren't educators, they are marketers. By the word "fool" I refer to someone who wastes the mentor's time by not listening, following through or taking the advised action. It gives me great joy to help others who resonate with me on their journey however they have to participate in the process. I tolerate ineptness and lack of follow through two times.....third strike and you're out. A close relative learnt that after he disrespected my (and my family's) time. He was given more than three opportunities though. I have digressed.

    To answer to your opening post...........

    The real alternative to all of us here who started 30-40 years ago like myself is to just go out and do it. I didn't have any mentors. I had a role model who I respected and who had accumulated properties and also having a desire to start a wealth and financial independence path myself gave me the momentum to make a start. I never really asked about the mechanics of the model he was using; I just started. and learnt and made mistakes and learnt from those too. I didn't even know if there were any investing books out there in the mid 80's. I don't think I read a property related investing book till maybe 15 years or so into my journey. Probably around 2000 I read Rich Dad Poor Dad and other investing related tomes.

    Are all property educators spruikers? No not all. I will pose my own question......Are they all actually educators? No not all.

    People still need to take action and make some decisions for themselves rather than rely on the plethora of information (usually conflicting and confusing) from the datasphere and well meaning (yet often misguided) friends and relatives. Most people however are too lazy to take the time or even the initiative to verify everything for themselves. Ergo, there is an industry for those less than honest and less than well intended leeches to serve their well rehearsed NLP infused sermon to the unsuspecting thereby luring them into their web and emptying their pocket$

    My 0.02..................
     
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  9. Gurtofen

    Gurtofen Well-Known Member

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    There's the first problem.......if you ever find someone like this then let me know. As the saying goes....'The only person who cares if you make money...is yourself.'
     
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  10. Barny

    Barny Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say all are spruikers.
    I would definitely say they all have a vested financial interest.
     
  11. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

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    well yes

    K...... by definition is an immoral, unethical,undeclared and often illegal remuneration.

    The challenge is that many many people equate the term commission with K,and thus all brokers, REA salespeople, REA managers, financial planners are lumped in with that muck.

    Lose the word I say,it has no place here.

    ta
    rolf
     
  12. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

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    A common view, and closely held opinion.

    Its not my experience.

    My world is full of people willing to give of many of their resources............time money, IP, vulnerability.

    I have found I receive what I expect and what I go out looking for

    ta

    rolf
     
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  13. Gurtofen

    Gurtofen Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a nice world to live in......
     
  14. inertia

    inertia Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it, it is a fact. It doesn't mean you can't take advice from them, you just have to take that in to account. Keep in mind that you are not the one paying their bills, the company providing commission, referral bonus, kickbacks etc is.

    Arguably, there is no such thing as "independent" advice - everyone has an agenda or political orientation, or particular philosophy they subscribe to. So long as you understand that, and can appreciate the similarities/differences with your own, you can give the advice appropriate weighting.

    Cheers,
    Inertia
     
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  15. Lisa Parker

    Lisa Parker Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this, Inertia. I think it's a great point you make about the people understanding this so appropriate weighting can be given to any advice or suggestions/ideas/perspectives.
     
  16. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely.
     
  17. Xenia

    Xenia Well-Known Member

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    In all property cycles educators are worshiped as gurus as the cycle is rising and then labelled as sprukers - crucified as the cycle declines.
    This is the madness of the masses and repeated throughout history in many forms.

    Those who can see it will follow markets and cycles, not gurus or properties or shares or argue about what is better or worse. The ability to see the bigger picture is the mindet that makes some people more successful than others. Being consciously aware and free form the need to worship or crucify.
     
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  18. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    The "spruik" elements are hard to classify but a singular aggressive proven "do as I say" where tales are stretched and facts are polished over becomes the feature that is unwanted in a relentless quest for dollars. Wholesale reproduction of a single strategy driven to sell to produce profit with zero regard.

    As I say to any client - Be careful there are sharks out there. Not all sharks look like sharks.
     
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  19. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    .... and this is exactly why I no longer recommend anyone on this forum unless I have first hand knowledge of what they have achieved and I personally have used their services and I will tell it as it is... good or bad, because I have no vested interest whatsoever in talking anyone up.
     
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  20. S.T

    S.T Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you're getting through that book!
     
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