Any help or advice on this situation would really be appreciated. I'm losing sleep over this

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by Arcticfire, 8th Apr, 2016.

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  1. Phantom

    Phantom Well-Known Member

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    It seems like you need to speak to a lawyer who specialises in this field. @thatbum has mentioned this is his field. Why not send a PM and get the ball rolling? At the very least, you will know your rights and obligations.
     
  2. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    Not an expert in the area at all , but I find it hard to believe that they would have received enough exposure from your property to have developed a serious issue .

    There are lots of people out there who seem to gain a small amount of information and exaggerate the risks which I think is the likely situation here .

    If this were my property I'd want to know the lead levels and if the tenants weren't prepared to share that information I'd say I'm happy for them to leave .

    I suspect that they won't do that , or the levels will be very low ( what ever that is ) . I would imagine it would be fairly easy to find out informtion on the web about lead levels .

    Quick search came up with this which would be a good basis to start with .

    I'd be using this as a starting point ...

    Cliff
     
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  3. Bran

    Bran Well-Known Member

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    Not my area or in any way a professional opinion, but an elevated lead level is considered at 5ug/dl. This suggests that this childs level is not considered elevated.

    CDC - Lead - New Blood Lead Level Information

    Whilst I can't blame the parents, it all sounds like a bit of a crock to me.
     
  4. Arcticfire

    Arcticfire Well-Known Member

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    Thank you See Change for that link - very helpful -

    Appears to be a concern if levels are above 5 micrograms per decilitre there daughter has 3 according to there test results

    They feel it should be zero
     
  5. Arcticfire

    Arcticfire Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link Bran

    yes it does say on that link that anything above 5 micro grams is a concern
    But is also says that there is no known safe levels of lead in children
     
  6. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    Some posters seem to be minimising the dangers of lead and blaming the tenants for making a fuss! How would you feel if it was your kids?

    Lead is a really serious health hazard, especially for babies and children. Small amounts can have an effect - from dust or flakes or burning. It can be retained in carpet, be deposited on internal walls after sanding etc. Yes, the kids may have got the lead from somewhere else, or they may have got it from the OP's place. Or the tests could be false positives or... Surely the most important thing is the health of the tenants? I would be asking for advice from my insurer.

    Read this info from the Federal government: www.environment.gov.au and search for 'lead in house paint'

    Lead paint that is undisturbed is not a danger, but kids chew things, even railings!
     
    Last edited: 8th Apr, 2016
  7. Nemo30

    Nemo30 Well-Known Member

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    should point out that see change and Bran are both medical professionals... they may not practice in this area, but better informed than someone off the street.
     
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  8. Bran

    Bran Well-Known Member

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    Zero would be ideal. But to get that, the kid needs to stay off old play equipment and out of the dirt, away from old or imported toys, and away from any old plumbing. I'm sure there are others.

    They won't ever be satisfied where they are, and rightfully so.
     
  9. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    These days that could mean Chiropractors!
     
  10. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    Substance list and thresholds | National Pollutant Inventory

    I'm not to familiar with the chemical business but did work with some nasty chemicals and learnt a little. but from my brief reading lead is a VOC (volatile organic compound) you can get an occupational hygienist (I think that's them) to come out and take samples and monitor the house and measure the levels present and provide a report with the findings plus info on safe levels and exposure etc.

    @pinkboy will likely know more
     
  11. Owlet

    Owlet Well-Known Member

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    Not minimising the dangers at all. As a parent I would give notice and leave.
     
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  12. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    Also, if the units are in a built up, heavy traffic area, the soil etc could be affected by years of lead build up from car exhausts back when petrol was still leaded.

    The NHMRC (peak health body in Australia) said last year on the subject of lead that most people would have a level of about 5 micrograms just through background exposure.

    The papers from the NHMRC investigation last year are on its website - titled 'evidence of the effect of lead on human health'
     
    Last edited: 8th Apr, 2016
  13. Arcticfire

    Arcticfire Well-Known Member

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    I would like to thank everyone for there input on this situation

    Ill have a chat to my PM tommorow and try to find away to move forward
     
  14. Tonibell

    Tonibell Well-Known Member

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    We had a similar situation over Christmas where a contractor installing vents cut some small holes through asbestos sheeting. The tenant reacted in a similar manner to your tenants.

    The general feeling this was a minor issue with little risk - but if pursued it could escalate.

    We kept the contractor involved and let him know that any claims would involve him.

    In the end the resolution was professional cleaning, lease break, free relocation costs and around 4 weeks lost rent. The contractor was involved with all of this.

    We were happy to get it resolved without external involvement.

    I think you are playing with fire if you don't reach a negotiated solution. The tenant has nothing to lose and young children have had their health put a risk.

    Get the painter involved and help them relocate. If they get advice on this it could easily escalate very quickly.
     
  15. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Maybe have a talk to someone at a higher level within the insurance company you pay for,at least that will give you some peace of mind,i have worked with a lot of lead and it can cause serious health problems,but as i'm looking at the landlord insurance contracts we have in place
    right now to see if something like this is covered,then the first cab off the rank would be the internal legal people within the insurance cover you have,that's what you pay for..
     
  16. Foxdan

    Foxdan Well-Known Member

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    So why is this your issue and not the issue of the painter who didn't follow the "correct" protocol of removing lead paint? You hired and paid for a professional, it's their job to do it properly. I assume licensed tradesmen have insurances to cover negligence.
     
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  17. emza

    emza Well-Known Member

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    Honestly your solicitor saying to thank them for bringing it to your attention sounds like a fool!

    And engaging in efforts to move them, etc, could be construed on some level as admission of guilt.

    So you move them and think - okay, that's done. New tenants in. Then they see a lawyer themselves because their youngest is displaying lead poisoning symptoms. Oh, the landlord paid to move you when lead was discovered? So they knew about it and accepted claims were true...

    I think you need to talk to a lawyer in the context of not being sued for creating a life-long health problem!

    Tread very carefully.
     
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  18. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

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    The tenant and her family have got there blood tested and lead levels have been confirmed both in there young children

    I suppose i'm not sure if there are any legal ramifications now that there children have tested positive to increased lead levels


    Please re-read your statements above. There is a glaring difference. Please take a deep breath.
     
  19. Bran

    Bran Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. That's my point. Not that the danger should be downplayed. The tenants need to leave, like I would. Their unit and it's paint is one factor they can change.
     
  20. Arcticfire

    Arcticfire Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Tonibell for your reply

    I definitely do not want this to escalate

    We do get the impression from the tenant that they would like to leave - its just finding another location that they are happy with that it is the issue - they have a very specific criteria as to what they want - and there does not happen to any be available

    I am not concerned about any of the break costs or even loss of rent at this time - Its just a matter of finding something that they are happy with

    I would like to find solution that they are happy with but if we cant find a alternative location that they find acceptable - im not sure what to do
     

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