Anticon in an Investment Property

Hi sanj, I could be mistaken but I probably meant ceiling batts in that case.

Double checked and it was 1,178 for the one theatre room. GIven it's barely over 12m2 from memory it seemed an awful lot. Specially with 5,185 for anticon to the whole house.

Well i guess I'm at crossroads now as there seems to be a 50/50 split between those who think it's a waste of money for an IP, and those who are gaming on the fact that energy efficiency and insulation will be a selling point of the future.

@Scott No Mates - I see your angle but the main question isn't moral compass here but as an IP, on the balance of things what's the likely return? Happy to put it in if it was likely going to improve rental returns or tenancy periods etc. , but so far the arguments tend to be more along insulation and energy ratings, which I don't disagree. It's more of I can't decide if a renter is really going to give two hoots about finding out if there's anticon and greater insulation in the theatre front-facing walls, versus other aspects of walking around the house....

Resale was probably more appropriate, but again some posters above argue it won't be noticed, others do. I won't be marketing it as sanj does given it's not a development, so the target client base could perhaps overlook this when buying existing in 5,10 years?

 

Scott - I don't understand how a quantity surveyor will come into this? To work out a fair price perhaps, but probably no good in telling me the potential return on investment on doing it?

Also don't think I will get ahold of anyone as I have no existing relationship with one, unless someone knows one kind enough to part with this sort of information with a non-client...

 

If the tenant moves in and finds that their running costs are unacceptably high they move on. This costs you in terms of increased vacancies and letting costs.

 

Try @Depreciator

 

Are they much of a muchness between brands? Anticon has the higher price so I"m assuming the more premium product?

Thanks Scott, good points. @Depreciator would appreciate an input on the cost/benefit of it. Circa 238m2 floor (incl. standard 5990 x 59990 garage) , circa 282m2 roof area (m2 on the flat). Quoted $5,185 for anticon. Wondering if it's a good price and secondly if the return will even be seen on an IP. After all $5k goes along way for an IP once you add in every other little cost here and there at prestart.

What sort of product life would anticon place, would it need replacing after 10 years or shorter?

 

I do get what youre saying but in terms of resale value in say 10 years, your product will be very similar to most built in the last 10. Underinsulated, aircon needed for significant portions of the year, high running cost.

Someone else who perhaps went a step further during construction puts their property of a similar age, size etc on the market at the same time as you, which do you think will appeal to a buyer more? Keep in mind in 10 years peoole are going to be a hell of a lot more picky when it comes to such measures, we are thankfully looking like theres hope in terms of building and designing better performijg houses.


I came across a property the other day with huge west facing walls and windows, black tile roof with no anticon and god knows what else.

It ia likely to be in the 800k mark or so, in north perth. Sure the developer may get away with it, eventually someone is goinf to find it a little bit difficult to sell.

My tenant got his power bill recentlu and was shocked by how low it was. Granted mine is an extreme example with it being 9 stars but i do believe people will stay here longer due to iverall feel and lower running costs

 

The cost seems reasonable, but the benefit is hard to quantify. I am doing a reno at home right now that involves some reroofing. I am using Aircell under the tin and then bulk insulation in the ceiling space. I recently used Aircell on my back room and was amazed at the effect even before I put in the bulk insulation. There are lots of products that do the same job and all of them would have stats to prove they are the best. Any of them would be much better than none of them. And all of them will improve the 'liveability' of the space. In a rental market with lots of supply, if a property is uncomfortable or expensive to live in, tenants will move on.
From a depreciation perspective, those things all have a 40 year Effective Life.

Scott

 

@sanj How did you know that property had no anticon? Did you enlist a BI and they reported on it? The big question though is will that 800k building have fetched for say 850k if it had paid the premium for ceiling foil linedinsulation?

That's a great outcome for your tenant. I guess the hardest bit to quantify is the financial return on the satisfied tenant staying longer given the anticon investment. Which makes it hard for a yes/no when it comes to feasibility. Assumedly they're going to be happy to stay put becuase of the energy efficiency. However, I assume the 9 stars isn't just insulation but your clever building design and materials . Assuming to save money on running costs there must be ample lighting (reducing lighting requirements for more parts of the day) as well as heating/cooling appliances.

@Depreciator - Scott, from what you're saying, you can't quantify the return, but believe that the comfort factor of better insulation and heating/cooling principles will result in lower tenant turnover? In other words your advocating on a balance of weighing up that one should throw the anticon in?

That said aircell is a similar product to anticon, just different name/product, but still foil backed insulation ceiling lining?

How did you find your reno went if you put in ceiling batts insulation first before the aircell? Or was it only a significant marked difference once the ceiling lining insulation (anticon/anticell) was installed?

 

I saw them put the roof on and wondered what kind of idiot built a premium-ish townhouse close to the city and skimped on proper insulation while choosing black roof tiles and having massive west facing windows

 

Depending on where you're building, Anticon will help meet energy efficiency levels as set out in the BCA or help meet BAL requirements if you're in a fire zone. It will also help with condensation problems which can lead to moisture problems in the roof cavity which will end up costing you in the future.
As Sanj said people are becoming more knoweldgable and wanting to live in a comfortable home and if your IP has high running costs and uncomfortable to live in you may have high turnover of tenants.
Each to their own but in my opinion, it's good building practice.

 

Yep, I reckon if a tenant is more comfortable, they are less inclined to move. But that's a gut feel more than anything. I do have friends who have moved into a flat nearby and now that the weather is heating up, they are dreading summer and will move I reckon when their lease is up.
So my current and sort of unplanned reno involves making one of my kids' bedrooms bigger. I'll have to post some photos. A wall came down between two rooms and the ceilings came down. Above the ceilings was a tin roof. When I was in that room on Monday, it was pretty hot. Today, with Aircell now under the tin, I am surprised at the difference in temperature in that room. When the ceiling goes back up with bulk insulation above it, it will be even better.
I said to Mimi last night, 'You know, your new room is going to be the best bedroom upstairs and there is a chance you will lose it?'

 

Similarly to Scott with both my projects i was amazed by how cool it was in summer with just anticon, prior to the batts going in.

 

Just an update. So I've most likely going with the basalt colourbond given the preference for the look over shale grey. It seems abit harder to find a colour scheme we liked with the shale grey even with the fact that we may or may not just keep it as an investment property which makes things difficult.

@Depreciator i spoke to a roofing guy who insists it would be impossible for my builder to achieve the WA 6 star energy rating without the antico? Reckons the energy rating would be 1.3 or smth(not familiar with ratings) with just ceiling batts. He also reckons the energy ratings are highlighted by building inspectors and that people will be smart enough going forward in the future to look for proper roof insulation.....

That said they mentioned supplied and installed at 10m2 so for my 280m2 flat roof itd be no more than 3k. He had a similar question half an hour before where dale alcock wanted 5k for a guys 300m2 roof. Probably better off than me given my 5.2k quote for a smaller roof.

Pity i cant debate it either. Torn as its so hard to quantify what the prevention of moisture and maintenance issues will be down track as an investment property, and whether id likely see any return from the house like this.


Can anyone comment on whether roof ventilators - whirly birds, solar powered fan forced ventilators etc can still be installed after handover once someone installs anticon? I cant imagine it being possible? As how would you have a break through the anticon? Or do they indeed just cut a hole through the anticon after to install the ventilation?? If they did surely that'd ruin it??

Or must one get a whirlybird done during building stage then??

 

Easy to fit a roof vent afterwards with Anticon or similar installed. You may not need one, though.
My new bit of roof has Aircell under the tin and bulk insulation in the ceiling. Together they work well.