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Anticon in an Investment Property

Discussion in 'Renovation & Home Improvement' started by SaberX, 11th Oct, 2015.

  1. SaberX

    SaberX Well-Known Member

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    So I've heard various opinions on google about anti-con, from what I hear it helps with 1) noise (rain etc) 2) moitsure in roof and 3) most importantly for many the insulation factors.

    Now I've been quoted $5,185 on providing anti-con roof insulation to the entire home. I plan to have it as an IP and am adding in 'smart' value where I can see it may future proof if I ever live in it, if not too much of a biggie if it stayys as an IP.

    I'm torn between whether anticon is required. On a 220k build an extra $5k is a huge hit for many building as some may imagine....

    Can anyone offer an opinion/advice on the pros/cons on anticon, and most importantlyy if it makes reasonable investment sense to add it in? There's always the odd idea of reselling, but my plan was to hold any property indefinitely as an investment (so selling may only be a change of circumstances etc.). Just trying to make the best decision... i think I'd like to keep it as an IP... but the location is ok for moving into if i get married.
     
  2. SaberX

    SaberX Well-Known Member

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    I may add that to reach the star energy ratings I assume all the relevant batt insulant (r4.0 from memory) would be in the roof cavity. Without anticon what sort of adverse effect would it have on the IP? Would the moisture/condensation from without it cause future roof issues down the track in 5-10 years that if I were to hold it indefinitely the outlay of $5k now may be worth doing?

    Do building inspectors actually note when employed by buyers that there is no anticon insulation?? or are happy so long as the star compliance energy ratings are met via the insulation batts etc?

    On a side note re:insulation how easy is it to retrospectively add anti con if it becomes a ppor?

    How about cavity insulation batts to the front facing (north westerly) theatre due to setting sun? I've also been quoted 1.2k by the builder, wondering if i can get away and if it ceases being a rental add in the insulation down the track.
     
  3. D.T.

    D.T. Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

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    It's one of those invisible items that no one can really see and therefore doesn't get valued or appreciated.

    If it was for building a PPOR i'd definitely look into ways I can make the home more comfortable. I think the builder or their inspector wouldn't really care as long as the minimum ratings were reached.

    If I was buying established, for either PPOR or IP i probably wouldn't care what was there to be honest.
     
  4. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Roof insulation is a must (imho). Ensure that there is reflective foil in the roof as well as the batts in the roof.

    Insulation
     
  5. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    It's not going to be easy to get to 6 star energy rating without the builder putting in insulation and or anticon. How is your builder proposing to get to 6 star?

    Nowadays practically all are having the foil lining sheets in the cavity + roof insulation. Anticon isn't always needed if it's a light coloured roof for insulation but if it's a dark coloured roof then yes insulation backed anticon.

    I would get insulation before I get extra cabling.
     
  6. SaberX

    SaberX Well-Known Member

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    Im not quite sure what is in the roof apart from ceiling batts to achieve 6 star. Ill have to ask. Is there other forms of roof insulation apart from anticon that'll br cheaper?

    I went with basalt colourbond in the end not surfmist.... So assumedly too dark...

    So is the anticon primarily for insulation, or does it actually protect from damage in ceiling from condensation or other items
     
  7. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    It is insulation. As you're going with metal deck roofing, foil under the roofing isn't necessary unless you get foil backed insulation (as well as ceiling insulation).
     
  8. SaberX

    SaberX Well-Known Member

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    So anticon acts only as a foil and i need to price a foil with insulation option? Or does one normally pair anticon with an insulation that goes hand in hand with the anticon as a backing to insulation?

    This is in addition to the r4.0 ceiling batts??

    The big q is does one see a return on an investment property, either financially or through lower longer term maintenance issues being minimised?

    With anti con at 5.2k i would assumr adding in insulation would cost thousand more at least. Which on an IP circa 220-230k in price is a decent %
     
  9. lisawithane

    lisawithane Well-Known Member

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    Anticon is a foil backed insulation and it's suited to metal roofs as it reduces the noise, helps with condensation issues and provides a thermal benefit. It's the type of product that is very difficult to retrofit later so you need to make the decision up front. If it was me I'd do it, who wants to live in an uncomfortable home. Also if you have moisture issues that can lead to health issues from mould etc, not good for people with allergies. Yes it's an upfront cost but it's one of those things that will be beneficial in the long run
     
  10. SaberX

    SaberX Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense... sorry thought anticon was foil only but if it is foil backed insulation makes sense. Used in conjunction with ceiling batts r4.0 i'm sure it is great personally if living in there.

    I guess my main question is its undeniably positive, money aside, but with money in the equation, what would, or are landlords here doing for IP only builds - anticon or no anticon?

    Unfortunately you can't retrofit easily, but the $5k is a significant hit on the numbers of a rental, so really weighing this up.
     
  11. SaberX

    SaberX Well-Known Member

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    I coudl be wrong, but with $149 quoted on bunnings, is bradford the only anticon (i assume proprietary name/technology) supplier?

    Just wondering how , even for the roof size of a 4x2 this could balloon out to $5,185.

    http://www.bunnings.com.au/bradford...icon-insulation-heavy-duty-blankets-_p0821171

    Obviously a 33% margin as well... wondering whether (given the margin) one could get it retrofitted for close to 6-8k if you ever need it, and therefore leave it out for now if it isn't necessary for a financial return on an investment property?
     
  12. lisawithane

    lisawithane Well-Known Member

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    I'm not exactly sure on the costs but the Bunnings price may be supply only and the $5K you've been quoted includes supply and install? Maybe that's where the high cost is coming from. From what I understand your roofer would install Anticon when they're doing the roof.
    I haven't built an IP so can't help you out with that question but personally I'd still add it into the build
     
  13. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    You'd need probably 20 of those, then labour and mark up.

    You'd have to take the roof off I think to retrofit it, so not really possible.

    Sarking is the non insulated liner. Anticon is a trademarked name of the insulated sarking but there are other names/brands such as Earthwool http://www.bunnings.com.au/earthwool-r-1-3-55mm-space-blanket-under-metal-roof-insulation_p0810887
     
  14. SaberX

    SaberX Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for clarifying westminster. IVE left anticon out for now as welk as the upgrade for 1k for cavity wall insulation to the front facing theatre walls. What is your opinion on the return vs necessity of it as an investment?

    In the end i didnt know enough about it to throw 6k+ EXTRA on an IP so left it out. Hopefully wont regret!

    @lisawithane: i may or may not end up living in it. But agreed, if i was 100% building to live in it from day 1 i wouldn't hesitate either.
     
  15. sanj

    sanj Well-Known Member

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    Whats the orientation of that theatre walls and what material is the wall made of?

    Personally i recently finished a project that is 9 star energy rated, 4 apartments. It included things like anticon and cavity insulation and the feedback so far from everyone in here (all tenants including myself) is that it is an extremely comfortable place to live.

    My maylands project of 5 apartments was originallygoing to be long term holds, im now going to sell a couple but even that project has anticon and cavity insulation.

    Minor things like this make a huge difference to live ability from a thermal pov, of course along with a whole host of other things like materials, orientation, ventilation, eaves etc.

    Personally if anyone in 2015 builds a house with dark tile roof (bad enough on its own) AND doesnt put in anticon or similar and decent batts they have made a mistake.

    Things like kitchen appliances, tiles etc can all be upgraded jn the future. Trying to retrofit insulation can be a very expensive exercise apart from batts

    Not saying this is you btw i dont know what your roof is.
     
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  16. sanj

    sanj Well-Known Member

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    Just re read your post, uninsulated north west facing stud walls would mean that theatre room would be pretty uncomfortable in summer, at a 220k build price youre probably talking end values in the 500k odd region as a wild guess, id personally be pretty disappointed in the builder/developer if i moved into a brand new home and it was pretty warm in summer snd one of the key features, the theatre, was a hot box.


    Ultimately we as a country in general have become lazy and complacent with home designs, "just chuck an aircon in there she'll be right" BS but the tide is turning imo and buyers and tenants are starting to get more savvy. If you are intending to hold this long term i think youll find in thr future it will pay off. Alternatively in say 5 years when better thermal performance really starts to be expected you dont want to end up with a dud that people pass on because youve taken shortcuts now.

    Just my opinion, i could be entirelt wrong
     
    Last edited: 19th Oct, 2015
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  17. SaberX

    SaberX Well-Known Member

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    Hi sanj,

    It is double brick construction here. Northwesterly i believe for theatre. I am going basalt colourbond roof, the surfmist didn't work too well with the rest of the darker colours i thought (exterior render wise).

    Good points - but one key mindset difference though is I am not a developer, so selling off quality developments and thereby insulation isn't so much an issue. I'm just approaching things from the 1) maintenance and rental pov - will it reduce problems/maintenance or even bring in return rental return i.e. tenants won't notice anticon or theatre insulation and will probably just run up the reverse cycle air cond when it gets warmer? 2) for resale as some said above it apperas building inspectors wouldn't note the anticon anyway, but would still state the 6 star energy rating compliance being met?

    Therefore it seemed like perhaps nobody but myself (if i lived in it) would notice the lack of anticon and insulation? And by the time someone buys it it woudln't be my problem anymore, if you get what i mean?

    Not disagreeing with the sensibility in thermal qualities but just wondering on the return side for an IP or even resale as an individual rather than developer?
     
  18. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    I get pretty p!$+ at people who apply double standards - cost of gas/power is thru the roof so they will make their house as energy-efficient as possible yet won't do the same in an IP.
     
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  19. sanj

    sanj Well-Known Member

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    Hi @SaberX , i assumed it was studs aa you mention batts in the cavity, cant be that if its double brick. It won't be completely unbearable in that room, 1.2k does seem a bit expensive just for 1 room.
     
  20. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    If all else fails speak to a qs who will give you guidance on the true price considering that the house hasn't been built.