Anticipating the China problem

Discussion in 'Politics' started by timetoact, 4th Dec, 2020.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
  1. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    6th Jul, 2017
    Posts:
    1,791
    Location:
    Birisbane
    China is going to get its lobsters from PNG, most likely from Australian waters.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-15/trepidation-as-china-prepares-to-move-into-the-torres-strait/12985504

    "Treaty a 'back door' into commercial fishing

    Torres Strait Fishing Association president Phillip Ketchell said he was also concerned China could use the treaty as a "back door" into the fishery.

    Under the treaty, Papua New Guineans are allowed to take 25 per cent of the total allowable catch of rock lobsters within Australian waters.

    Mr Ketchell said authorities would need to increase surveillance of fishing vessels.

    "We're a bit worried about how do we keep tabs on what's being fished," he said.

    "Traditionally they just work out of Daru with their long boats and go back to Daru and offload, but with the Chinese going in there with the amount of capital they're going to pour into that, with bigger and better boats, it looks like we're going to be copping the 25 per cent impact quite often."
     
  2. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    5,813
    Location:
    Paradise, Brisbane
    I can think of bigger issues in Torres Strait than just fishing.
     
  3. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    6th Jul, 2017
    Posts:
    1,791
    Location:
    Birisbane
    Have you seen how they fish in the South China Sea at the Spratly Islands ?
     
    Whitecat likes this.
  4. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    5,813
    Location:
    Paradise, Brisbane
    With battle ships
     
    Brickbybrick and Antoni0 like this.
  5. Ted Varrick

    Ted Varrick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21st Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,941
    Location:
    No Mans Land
    Moving to "Cash with Order" would be a good start for any suppliers.

    Moving to an assessment of whom owns what, and comparing that to the equivalent reciprocal practices, would also be perhaps somewhat helpful to governments.
     
  6. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,786
    Location:
    My World
    Looks like China will be trading with US and Canada .....Barley, lobster and wine

    Still not sure where this is all going..... but we seem to still be breathing and chugging along
     
  7. Lacrim

    Lacrim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    25th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    6,175
    Location:
    Australia
    I wish the media and pollies would stop talking about China...could lead us into a David vs Goliath military confrontation.

    By all means, plan and prepare behind the scenes and slowly wean ourselves off them wrt trade etc. but shut up with all the bloody rhetoric and bluster.

    Extremely dangerous game we're playing here. Perception is reality.
     
  8. timetoact

    timetoact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    422
    Location:
    Sydney
    I 100% agree.
    However I feel like there are some very large games being played outside of public view that Australia is very much not in control of.
    However I would still prefer our politicians to walk a slightly less antagonistic line, I don't see this working out well for us in the medium term.

    You cannot let a bully, bully you. I get that. If we pandered to China when they started this course of action it would have only led to them knowing they hold all the power. NZ is kinda taking this approach but they haven't really been bullied yet.

    There is also a lot of global commentary on China preparing for war. How much of this is western propaganda is impossible to know.
    On this point, assuming China is preparing for war, is the strategy of calling it out actually better than not? I think it probably is.
    IF China is actually preparing for some kind of military action, it has to be better to let them know that the world sees its coming rather than giving them any kind of false confidence they hold the element of surprise or that the west isn't preparing.

    However this is surely best left to countries who have the military might to do something about it. That said, the USA is almost certainly pressuring Australia and other allies to join the global voice.

    Which kinda leads me to my answer of why these opinions are being voiced.

    We are being bullied by the Chinese because they know we want their trade and we are being bullied by America because they know we want their protection.

    Rock and a hard place...

    As for whether or not China is "beating the drums of war".

    I am not so sure they are, at least not in the next 10-20 years.
    For sure they are hell bent on becoming the dominant nation on Earth. However the Chinese are very savvy, (albeit a bit touchy on any form of criticism - which is IMO what all of this is about) they know that a full scale war with the west at this point in time is impossible to win. So what would it gain for them? Possibly a land grab that stays in place after a peace accord is signed? Seems pretty risky to me, given the chance of an out and out defeat. It would have to be some pretty prime real estate and there is very little chance of somewhere like Australia being handed over. More likely some small Asian countries.

    So is all of this actually the US trying to hold onto power?

    Or a combination of both?

    Either way you can be sure Russia is in China's ear.

    Some very large games being played...
     
    Mulianto and spoon like this.
  9. Gen-Y

    Gen-Y Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    8th Nov, 2015
    Posts:
    3,770
    Location:
    Brisbane - Sydney
    I don't see why Australia want to pretend to play the battle chess game.
    We are a minion aka PAWN piece for the USA to move around.
    Just because USA says their way is better. Is it really? Is it?
    How much do we trade with China or USA?
    Show me the money? Jerry Maguire
     
    Mulianto likes this.
  10. timetoact

    timetoact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    422
    Location:
    Sydney
    Yeah, but there is more to life than money.

    What happens in life if you constantly chase money and forget your friends? One day you end up broke, lonely and probably lose your house...
     
  11. spoon

    spoon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    17th Nov, 2016
    Posts:
    1,762
    Location:
    Time-dependent
    I think we should look at history and see how Switzerland survived WW2. They were facing closer and larger evils than us now. Staying neutral in situation like this actually have a lot to gain. I listened to a couple of talks by Kevin Rudd and I think what he said was rather inspiring in such a global situation.
     
    Brickbybrick and Lizzie like this.
  12. Gen-Y

    Gen-Y Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    8th Nov, 2015
    Posts:
    3,770
    Location:
    Brisbane - Sydney
    What are you spilling about now? I still have my friends and family.
    I have been to USA and CHINA more times than I can count in both hands.
    Lets say I rather be in Australia and put up with the BS here than over there.
    Do I feel safer in USA than CHINA? - absolutely not. It is the opposite.
    Just let the big boys play their chest game - Australia just need to stay neutral if we can ever walk back a few steps.
    The CHINA barking is a distraction on more important things.
     
    Mulianto likes this.
  13. timetoact

    timetoact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    422
    Location:
    Sydney
    Do you think Switzerland survives if Hitler wins WW2?

    I'm not comparing the two situations, just questioning the comparison.
     
  14. Lacrim

    Lacrim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    25th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    6,175
    Location:
    Australia
    We are not talking tough with Vanuatu - this is China (and possibly Russia) that we're snarling at like a junkyard dog.

    If we don't tone it down quicksmart and pull our head in, deal with the differences diplomatically, the alternative is potentially Armageddon. And the war won't take place thousands of miles away. It will be brought to our shores and cities. It'll play out like an apocalyptic Call of Duty game.

    Seriously, our leaders and military generals should know better than to keep opening their mouths. Do what you're paid to do - protect Australians. And the media should be censored on this topic as well in the interests of national security.

    Scary stuff. Just STFU and let things blow over.
     
    Brickbybrick and Mulianto like this.
  15. Traveller99

    Traveller99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    746
    Location:
    Settled
    What in particular has the Australian government said or done that worries/concerns? you?
     
  16. Lacrim

    Lacrim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    25th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    6,175
    Location:
    Australia
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...s-top-australian-general-20210503-p57ogv.html

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...-are-with-the-government-20210501-p57o14.html

    Not so bad or overly inflammatory when you read it from our perspective, but you know how easily the Chinese are offended and how they 'shape' news in their own country. It will be construed as us goading them.

    How do you think we would perceive it if China said 'conflict with Australia is highly likely'?
     
    Last edited: 4th May, 2021
  17. spoon

    spoon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    17th Nov, 2016
    Posts:
    1,762
    Location:
    Time-dependent
    I never knew. But they managed to survive longer than other states on the list. And history also told us Switzerland was never "neutral" in substance. Just look at what their banks were storing.
     
    Last edited: 4th May, 2021
  18. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    9th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    9,618
    Location:
    Planet A
    These are some very good - and brief videos to watch regarding what is going on in the world between the US, China and Russia.





    That being said ... Australia - the pimply, weedy, nerd standing on the sidelines - needs to stop antagonising the schoolyard bully and leave dealing with it to the might of the wrestling team
     
  19. Traveller99

    Traveller99 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    746
    Location:
    Settled
    I think much of the rhetoric being used is unhelpful. However, chest beating is just a typical government vs government stoush. If you read the articles on The Global Times, the CCP's unofficial mouthpiece, the rhetoric is dialled up to 11.

    The Australian government are no doubt standing up for sovereignty (there also must be other geopolitical/economic reasons), and the direct attempts to stand up to China are part of a global sentiment shift against the CCP. I think we'll see this increasing across the world as the years pass.
     
    The Falcon likes this.
  20. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    9th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    9,618
    Location:
    Planet A
    Ah well - guess we're in good company tho

    'How politely can I put it?': Philippine minister's coarse message to China

    The Philippine foreign minister has posted an expletive-laced Twitter message demanding China's vessels get out of disputed waters, the latest exchange in a war of words with Beijing over the South China Sea.

    The comments by Teodoro Locsin, known for blunt remarks, follow Manila's protests for what it calls the "illegal" presence of hundreds of Chinese boats inside the Philippines' 331 kilometre Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ).

    "China, my friend, how politely can I put it? Let me see... O...GET THE F--- OUT," Mr Locsin tweeted on his personal account.
     
    Brickbybrick likes this.