All the tax whingers

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by Noobieboy, 24th Feb, 2021.

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  1. Noobieboy

    Noobieboy Well-Known Member

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    Was chatting with a mate who is planning to come back as soon as the borders open. He is in the Netherlands at the moment. Told me their tax rate is 49%+ for any income above AUD100K equivalent. Any tax credits and refunds are progressively reduced to zero as you approach that threshold as well. At least that’s my understanding.

    Crazy. And we whinge about our tax rate...
     
  2. datto

    datto Well-Known Member

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    Pretty savage. But at least they got great coffee shops and window shopping red light districts lol Also wooden shoes come in handy when you're getting mugged.
     
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  3. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    They also have an amazing social system. Free health, childcare, maternity leave, education, university etc etc. Gotta pay for that somehow
     
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  4. datto

    datto Well-Known Member

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    They got Centrelink as well? Might pack my bags lol.
     
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  5. jaybean

    jaybean Well-Known Member

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    Tax whingers are people who have no perspective. You can't evaluate anything on one metric alone. Otherwise you could pick a third world country and say that's the best country ever cause of the low tax. You need to look at the broader picture and ask; are you happy in general? How likely is your sister to get raped walking down the street? Do your parents have to worry about whether their doctors are even qualified? Is it possible for me to get hit by a guy driving with a license he got by bribing someone? What's the probability of me being shaken down by the next cop that walks by? How likely is it that someone literally walks into my home tomorrow and just takes it? Guess what it costs to not have to worry about all that crap. PERSPECTIVE.
     
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  6. Travelbug

    Travelbug Well-Known Member

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    If you think that's bad don't even think about moving to Sweden.
     
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  7. Noobieboy

    Noobieboy Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. People don’t realise that tax and especially wellfare it funds is an externality cost for safety and stability. It’s either social security or have to pay for safety in some other way.

    What amazes me is that we managed to get similar benefits to these countries at much much lower cost it seems!
     
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  8. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    That's the crux. We don't have similar benefits.

    Last time I checked, Australian citizens can take over a decade to pay off their uni debt ... only the most progressive of employers have any form of maternity leave at reduced pay rates (most don't have any parental leave) ... waiting lists for life altering, yet "non essential" medical procedures can be years ... our public transport system is rubbish ... we're falling behind in education and intelligence, research and development (most breakthroughs have to be sold overseas) ... our "futures" development is ad hoc and knee jerk at best ... and our conservative government are more interested in muck flinging and pork barreling rather than making positive decisions and cultural progression.

    Yes, we are a stable country with potential ... but our potential is stifled by the sense of gimmee individual entitlement and win at all costs

    I'm not saying their system is perfect ... or the Australia one is rubbish ... theirs works for them and ours works for us (although I'd like to see the unemployment benefit system pay more than a poverty supplement) ... merely that, as taxpayers, we get what we pay for and the two are not really comparable
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26th Feb, 2021
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  9. Noobieboy

    Noobieboy Well-Known Member

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    I’m all for free education. My argument if Russia and Romania can afford free university, we should be to. We are much wealthier than them.

    But there is also a difference. Their universities are non for profits dedicated to education. Ours are businesses, dedicated to fattening pockets of lecturers.

    That said. We still have much better wellfare system compared to many countries with similar tax rates (cue the US).
     
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  10. Vertigo

    Vertigo Well-Known Member

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    The problem I have with this, is that we are not all evenly taxed, if someone on 70k is taxed at 32% then I also should be taxed at 32% not 45%!

    Why should talented people that have in-demand skills be penalised and have to pay more tax?
     
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  11. euro73

    euro73 Well-Known Member Business Member

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    I'm just putting this out there.....

    When a major party took policies designed to wind back some of the tax goodies/largesse for some, a couple of years back, in order to pay for some other stuff which they thought might need the money a little more ...they didnt get enough support to get those things done. I dont have a dog in this fight but if you want that stuff funded ( better aged care, better health care, less expensive education for example ) but voted LNP , and that lead to no action on NG or dividend imputation and more haircuts for universities and more haircuts for medicare.... that's the consequence of that vote. And that's fine.... but for those who want revenue collected differently and distributed differently.... vote differently.

    I have lived in the US and Australia. I also worked for 13 years at Centrelink in my 20's and 30's - at regional offices in Blacktown, Auburn, Penrith, Merrylands and Ryde. My views are that we have the balance pretty right, most of the time.... and can broadly be proud of the safety nets we provide in most areas. But I would say this; my father passed a few years ago after deteriorating from Lewys Body Dementia, so I can speak from experience when I say that the level of care available for our elderly ( whether aged care or dementia care ) is absolutely not something we can be proud of. I was lucky enough to have had the means to provide a superior level of care for Dad and essentially buy him some dignity, but even that was barely adequate ... I do not envy those without such means.... it's truly, truly , truly a horrible and inadequate $hi7 sandwich for most ... so as a tax payer and citizen with a high income and significant asset base , I can assure you I would have no issues if some of the tax goodies available to me had to make way for some extra dollars for our elderly...
     
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  12. Noobieboy

    Noobieboy Well-Known Member

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    I agree. What a lot of people don’t understand, is that those of us who are on high income are so not just because they are talented. But also because the welfare system ensures those without means can SPEND money which eventually ends up in larger proportion of the pockets of those who have. The argument of I shouldn’t be paying more tax than a person on $32K doesn’t stand.

    There are millions of extremely talented, hardworking people in Africa and I bet majority earn less then us. Gimme gimme mentality benefits no one.
     
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  13. Vertigo

    Vertigo Well-Known Member

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    If you could post a link or some sort of proof that this is true and not just something you have made up that would be good thanks

    You have used an extreme example of an impoverished third world country to validate your argument that the talented should pay higher tax than everyone else, what not compare us to Switzerland or Iceland? or the Caymans?
     
  14. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    But you don't pay 45% ... you pay 45% on amounts OVER $150,000 (or thereabout, I can't be bothered looking it up)
     
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  15. Vertigo

    Vertigo Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a problem paying tax, I have a problem being singled out with my income and paying more than anybody else,

    I have an employee that works for me that pays no tax on her 26k a year casual hours but drives around in a 40k dollar car, lives in an affluent suburb etc etc. Don't get me wrong, its all legit, but seriously, you guys are going on about healthcare and freshly tar sealed roads, but the average lazy bogan is soaking up every last piece of government or Centrelink subsidies there is. I see this first hand every day when we do payroll, This employee is not paying anything towards your health care, you do get that no?
     
  16. Vertigo

    Vertigo Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry but you have no idea how much tax I pay through my personal returns or any of my companies, if you did it would make your eyes water, or maybe it wouldn't actually because you probably would never know how it feels to part with so much income
     
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  17. Vertigo

    Vertigo Well-Known Member

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    This thread is completely backwards, instead of singling out tax-paying whingers, you should be throwing the light on people that DONT pay ANY tax.

    once again it's just another great example of how the "average" person thinks
     
  18. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    I don't care how much you pay - but I do care at misinformation being spouted as "truth".

    Granted I was wrong ... you pay 45% on income over 180,000. Your employee on $26,000 will be paying "some" tax - but to afford her lifestyle, someone in her household is obviously earning a heck of a lot more and hence paying a heck of a lot more tax

    So - you want someone working 60 hours a week on minimum wage, earning $53,000 a year to pay $20,000 of that in tax and hence end up with $33,000 to live on ... the same tax rate as someone working 60 hours a week pencil pushing and earning $300,000 a year and "perhaps" paying $80,000 in tax (cause they know how to "work" the tax system) and ending up with $220,000 to live on. You reckon that's fair?

    Screenshot (119).png
     
    Last edited: 26th Feb, 2021
  19. Absent

    Absent Well-Known Member

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    Out of interest: you claim to be... "talented." How so? Kindly elaborate.
     
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  20. Lizzie

    Lizzie Well-Known Member

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    I don't care - I can afford to pay and are happy to do so, so that everyone in our society receives a basic standard of care and can aspire to be contributing members ... or care for those who are nearing the end of their lives who have other needs.

    There are a heck of a lot of intelligent people stuck in menial, low paying jobs due to circumstances beyond their control - there's a lot of rich dicks who have made their money by conning and sharking off others ... wealth and income does not necessarily indicate the integrity and deservibility of the man

    By your accounting, the guy who makes a squillion playing numbers behind a computer, and contributes nothing to society, is more worthy than the guy who processes your garbage or your childcare worker? I know which one you'd miss quicker if things went to pot
     
    Last edited: 26th Feb, 2021

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