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Aggressive, but diligent investing?

Discussion in 'Investor Psychology' started by ashimashi, 3rd Apr, 2016.

  1. ashimashi

    ashimashi Well-Known Member

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    edit- before i start, i'd like to apologize for the long post. Only noticed how long it was once i finished writing it.


    What are your thoughts in regards to being a very aggressive yet, still not taking any shortcuts in regards to the proper diligence process when it comes to choosing where to invest, area wise etc/making sure its in line with the long term plan etc, specially for someone who is just starting up by purchasing a first IP.

    And by aggressive i simply mean it in the term's of obtaining as many IP's as possible in the first 12 months of investing, not aggressive in the means of being careless. For someone who has set themselves a plan of lets say 15 properties by 35 and leaving themselves a window of 10 years to achieve that plan, is it common for you guys too who are still obviously trying to juggle a 9-5 job to have your mind continuously pre-occupied even when you are at work, or even when you are at home. Continuously i see myself recently spending more and more time on various investor blogs/this forum/realestate.com or anything else related to the property sector or in the office talking to various finance people, agents or friends in regards to my next move. I think the other day when i was out with my little brother walking in Coles, he looked at me and goes why do you keep looking at your phone so much every time we're out (get off facebook he said), i turned my phone and showed him the realestate.com app that i was scrolling through and he just shook his head and called me an addict. Its all i do, and have been doing for quite some time, i think even my friends and family have begun noticing it and have mentioned how distant/pre-occupied i seem sometimes.

    I honestly prefer spending my weekends at home these days, in-front of my computer looking at various areas, studying/reading up on them, analyzing the areas i feel i want to invest in, reading up on people's views on here. And spending the following day calling up the various properties i have found, speaking to the agents, my mortgage broker etc trying to find ways to being able to purchase up-to 3 properties this year alone and finding the right 2-3 properties in terms of price/serviceability and how to go about's obtaining them then maybe consider taking it easy for a while (and by while i mean until next year) or until the banks tell me to piss off :D

    I think its because this year i am actually in the midst of pulling the trigger finally, it's just occupying my mind more then anything i have ever experienced, its kind of all overwhelming. I just had the contract for my first IP go unconditional couple of days ago, even though going through some issues that came across in the inspection which i am dealing with, i have already begun looking for a second IP (even made offers).

    I have even decided getting myself a second job, part-time somewhere just to be able to work even harder to get closer to my goal earlier. I am a firm believer of the saying "do what others aren't doing now, so you can do what other's cant later" , but what specifically do you guys do to manage everything life has to throw your way on top of a intensive/overwhelming aspect of property investing etc? And just to put it out there, me personally, I don't even boost 1% comparison to any of you extremely impressive investors on this forum at the moment which is why i am asking. What is your happy medium?

    I find myself coming home exhausted from work, and straight away jumping on the computer at home and just sitting there until midnight and do my thing. Get in bed, grab myself the latest property investing magazines i picked up on the way home from work and read that until i fall asleep, wake up exhausted, go to work and then repeat the same thing. Sometimes, i actually feel so mentally exhausted that i don't feel like doing anything but i manage to get myself to at least spend a couple of hours during the day doing that because psychologically i actually feel guilty not having managed to do something productive towards reaching that goal. Besides, i actually genuinely love doing it.

    Apologies for the long post, posting this thread was actually a downtime for me.

    Now back too it, looking forward to reading your input :)
     
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  2. Xenia

    Xenia Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

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    Hi Ashim
    There is nothing wrong with quick acquisition as long as they are the right property in the right area with a good supply /demand ratio and hence capital growth.
    also the loans need to be serviced easily which means adequate cash flow coming into the loans.
    If all that is in place then the time factor for acquisition is not relevant.
     
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  3. Bran

    Bran Well-Known Member

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    Totally normal behaviour.
     
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  4. Michael_X

    Michael_X Mortgage Broker Business Member

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    Great post @ashimashi. I can tell reading through that you will do very well from property investing.

    A few thoughts

    Aggressive investing - it's all relative, and the key component is knowledge. As your knowledge grows, what others deem to be risky will actually seem quite safe. I personally think the most risky thing is to do nothing.

    Work - this is the hard part. You will need work for the next few years just for the payslip to borrow. Going to work, knowing that's not where you will be is hard. The success of your journey won't come down to property knowledge, you will pick this up fairly quickly, it's the mental & emotional of doing things you don't want to go, to get to where you want to go is the hard part.

    Second job - kudos on taking this step. It really depends on your goals. If your goal is 10 properties over the next 2 years then the amount you need to sacrifice is very different if you had a 20 year time frame.

    It may sound cliched but whatever you want is possible. Depends how badly you want it, and what you are willing to sacrifice. It's like going to the gym, lots of people want that perfect body but when it comes down to it, not everyone wants to follow the program or the diet. Property investing is no different. There is no right or wrong, just depends on your goals.

    Good luck!

    Cheers,
    Michael
     
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  5. freyja

    freyja Well-Known Member

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    I agree that it can get time consuming when you are searching for the next IP but how sustainable is this? I think it's great to be aggressive if you do your DD but you need to maintain your health, relationships and day job in the meantime. Otherwise, what's the point if you have noone to share your time with or are sick when you finally reach your goal? Try to carve some guilt-free time for your family and yourself.
     
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  6. Bran

    Bran Well-Known Member

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    It's not sustainable. I always call it quits for a while and replace it with another obsession.
     
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  7. ashimashi

    ashimashi Well-Known Member

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    @Xenia Thanks for your input, appreciate it! I'm trying to actually steer away from my initial plan and begin diversification quite early to be honest instead of just sticking plainly to the Melb market. Kind of get out of my comfort zone despite only starting, which i have realized based on my calculations will allow me to kind of attain that one or two extra properties this year hopefully. Also seeing you're a property manager in Adelaide please don't mind if i end up picking your brain over a pm sometime soon :), i am actually looking and have been for a while into the Salisbury area with the intention of maybe getting something up there.

    @Michael_X Thanks Michael for the kind words! I completely agree, it does get tough, sometimes very tough. Specially mentally, but i guess the difference between you and the next person will always come down to the will of how badly you really want it. What you are willing to sacrifice at the present point in time to attain your goals, I guess that actually relates to pretty much everything in life though. I think you said it perfectly, one of the hardest things to actually do is going through those motions 5 days a week going to work, while your mind is somewhere completely different.

    @Bran Cheers Bran, though't maybe i was just going insane for a second! :D

    @freyja Agreed, obviously putting time aside for the family and yourself is important, whether or not it's actually guilt-free, i cant say it is. I cant help it, I feel like it doesn't matter whether its time spent with family, myself or other half i am not 100% there. Something i really need to be working on actually fixing, and not only for my own sake.
     
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  8. D.T.

    D.T. Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

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    Probably not a coincidence , but have 5 new clients in Salisbury Council this month- Salisbury North, Ingle Farm, Pooraka, Paralowie etc etc. So you could be onto a very good plan there!
     
    Last edited: 3rd Apr, 2016
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  9. Xenia

    Xenia Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

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    Absolutely any time Ashim - love to hear from you.
     
  10. Vk8975

    Vk8975 Well-Known Member

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    @ashimashi I don't think what you are experiencing currently is abnormal in anyway. When you are new to property investing and have a genuine interest in it, there is a tendency to spend all of your free time and even some of your work time :))) researching and looking for ways to expand your portfolio. I know because I have and still do the same thing.

    Once you have reached your initial goal of 2 or 3 properties it might be worthwhile to sit back and reevaluate your position and see whether it is sustainable and what your next goal is.
     
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  11. Big Daddy

    Big Daddy Well-Known Member

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    If you are investing /buying all in the same place (sub-market) then ensure the fundamentals are good (eg Macro and micro). If you did this now in Perth, or started 12-18 months ago then you would be struggling.
     
  12. Leo2413

    Leo2413 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    @ashimashi

    Read your post and it made me smile a few times, thinking back to when I was doing similar as I suspect many on here probably have too. As others have said I think what your doing/going through is perfectly normal and imo necessary, for someone who seems to have quite intense investment plans. I remember I was completely and totally obsessed for a period of about 5 years, got 3-4 jobs, withdrew from people who were negative, trolled real estate sites, did heaps of reading, networking and learning, just as you are going through now. I think its perfectly normal. I think there is nothing wrong with being highly aggressive with very lofty goals, if that's what you want. And as you've already identified, there are no 'shortcuts'. Nada. Gotta put in the hard work, time, sacrifices etc, especially if you know your personal financial goal in dollars and cents is relatively quite large.

    With regards to your question: "but what specifically do you guys do to manage everything life has to throw your way on top of a intensive/overwhelming aspect of property investing etc?

    Obviously I can only answer for myself. As @Michael_X said , property knowledge is fairly easy and quick to learn (provided you actually do it) but its developing the mental and emotional capacity to deal with challenges, stress and keeping on track which will be the hardest part, and this becomes even more crucial the loftier your goals are imo. If you learn how to take care of that part plus have a good foundation of property investing knowledge then you'll be formidable in this game.

    All just my opinion and what has worked for me, but everyone is different so finding the best mix that works for you, only you can do that.

    Good luck .
     
    Last edited: 3rd Apr, 2016
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  13. Amberlee

    Amberlee Active Member

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    Agree with @Vk8975 and @Bran
    I can get pretty obsessive with it during an aquisition phase too, but once you've expended your lending capacity and serviceability for the time being then you'll probably feel like taking a breather and focusing on other things for a while....till you can buy again and then it's all on again! :)
     
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  14. Foxy Moron

    Foxy Moron Well-Known Member

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    Nice post. Research is never a bad thing! You never mentioned your present living situation – ie still in the family home, renting or in our own place. The ambition is admiral, yet I wonder how you see your equity growing? Are your investments going to be passive, yield-focussed, affordable properties only ? – if so you would be hoping to buy really well, and ride the market up. Then research can never be under-valued. But what if the market gets the staggers? In your shoes I would slightly tweak your plan as you sound young and full of energy.

    Have you considered manufacturing equity as part of the plan? One option could be to buy a fundamentally sound but slightly ugly duckling PPOR in your home city, spruce it up whilst living there in first 12 months, and then get it revalued and rented out. Rinse and repeat. Managing that exercise would be a lot smarter than either getting a second job or relying purely on market moves to make you wealthy. You don’t need to have tradie skills for a lot of tasks eg de-construct / paint / landscape / co-ordinate trades. That’s all I ever do. Plan mini projects that give big bang for buck such as adding another bedroom or getting a cost-effective kitchen upgrade. And lots of fun getting your hands dirty plus justify owning a cheap ute. Do this four times in four years and then you’d be near bulletproof. In summary - basic value-adding using your own smarts and sweat can take you further, sooner, and remove the hope and pray factor. Just my 2c but good luck with whatever path you take.
     
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  15. Andrew H

    Andrew H Well-Known Member

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    @ashimashi i almost fealt that i was reading a biography on myself! i am never satisfied i don't think i will ever be until goals are reached. Even after mulitple IP's i still believe i'm still obsessed and i can't see that slowing down. I beleive it is perfectly normal. With all the crap on TV and your phone - what else would you do in spare time? I like fishing and camping, but hey obviously there is 24hrs in a day so plenty of time to be obsessed with property as well. I call it not wasting time - time is precious.

    I have to agree 100% with @Foxy Moron 's post above. @ashimashi your agressive style would suite perfectly to manufacturing equity suggestion. If you adopt the buy, hold and prey strategy as i have been guilty of in the past you will go absolutely batshit crazy waiting for markets to move and will feel depleated if they don't. Then you'll be coming up with other ideas outside of property to make money for property. Manufacturing will keep you occupied with faster results until the banks say no. By manufacturing you will have a greater chance of the banks saying YES for longer. Buying under market value will also aid in this where possilbe. Therefore reaching goals sooner.
     
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  16. ashimashi

    ashimashi Well-Known Member

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    @D.T. Well i'd like to hope so! You have any IP's yourself around that area if you don't mind me asking?

    @Big Daddy Agreed, which is why I am actually trying to go for diversification earlier then planned, despite my initial plan to stay within my comfort zone while starting up and the Melbourne market. Hoping for a blend of QLD, SA & VIC on the first 3 depending on what i find/where i find them.

    @Leo2413 Thanks Leo, appreciate the input! I guess i have this imagination that it'll get easier after the first one is out of the way, at least that's what i am hoping and have been told. Also, i have learned the hard way that anything in life that has value, or meaning to it will not simply be given to you or easily attainable. Specially something like property, early retirement, or financial freedom. It's grinding away until you achieve it which is the hard part, and in my opinion the most important. So i agree completely, no shortcuts.

    @Amberlee Thanks Amberlee, but i can see myself hassling anyone or anything finance related to get another loan, I can see it happening already :p

    @Foxy Moron Yep, still living at home at the moment. With the area's i am looking at in Brissy/SA i am hoping for decent growth leading into the next 3-5 years, and with the property i am looking into in VIC it's quite yield focused (slower CG area) which i am fine with. Also with the properties that i do look at, i make sure there is for example future subdivision potential, renovation potential with option of adding extra bedroom, bathroom, turn downstairs into studio etc in the future.

    Or properties that do need a bit of work that i can do something to here and there in the next 12-24 months during the periods that i do hit a serviceability wall/or market slows down to increase rent/equity etc. I enjoy getting my hands dirty, and i intend on doing so, besides i come from a family of tradies. For example the property i am about to pick up in Brissy, i am looking forward to turning it from a 4-1-2 to a 5-2-2 hopefully sometime in the future by adding an extra bedroom + living area in the downstairs area, and also adding a bathroom maybe even a shower if possible.

    @Andrew H Good to hear Andrew! I personally don't even watch TV (unless its catching up on game of thrones, walking dead or better call saul) which takes maybe around 2-3hrs out of my week. Other then that it's all property related. And i agree, but i believe if you do go down the path of buy, hold and prey as long as the properties you pick up have other possibilities that can be done in the case market is slow. Anything to keep yourself busy, and being able to build equity yourself instead of solely relying on the market it'll be fine.

    For now though my plan is to obviously attain the right properties, and when i do decide to actually move out of home, maybe in the next 2 years or so hopefully my plan was actually to purchase a renovation project to move into and get working on that slowly while living in it. That'll be IP number 4 or 5 though, but i am just getting ahead of myself now. :D
     
  17. D.T.

    D.T. Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

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    Yup, half (5-6) the portfolio are northern suburbs in Adel.
     
  18. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

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    Well, it is similar to me, when I am doing something, I check everything, it takes time and means other things come second.

    I do know when to switch off though, and I do not read any magazines.

    Anyway, nothing wrong with really giving it your time, better than watching TV entertainment shows, or going to club for pokies